1. 9 Oct 2021 at 11:18 PM #1
    1squadron

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    I am dead keen... have pretty much wanted to as long as I've had the car and now thinking to treat myself as I approach five years with it. Contacted Abbey Motorsport and was told Harrop are currently not shipping them due to being under "engineering review". Mark thinks that might mean raw material or component supply constraints.

    I'm drawn to the Harrop for the torque mainly and I think I'll appreciate the noise too!

    Interested to hear anyone's thoughts or feedback, especially Harrop owners.

    I also read something about the latest ESS charger achieving better low to mid range torque than centrifugal chargers traditionally have. Anyone know anything about this?

    Cheers!
     
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  2. 10 Oct 2021 at 12:49 PM #2
    HARBER07

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    I don't follow the E90 world very closely but I was under the impression ESS still used Vortech Centrifugal blowers like VF do. If that's the case then Low to Mid torque will be what it is for a standard Centrifugal. Rotrex Centrifugal blowers are better in this department as they have an integral planetary gearset to really wind the impeller up as fast as possible, however I don't like them as much personally as you cannot easily rebuild them. Vortech/Paxton are agricultural in comparison, but they are literally assembled with a handful of components and reliability is absolutely excellent.

    I've just had a research and it looks like ESS are pushing their/a E-Charger G1 supercharger unit these days. It essentially looks like the old faithful Vortech unit reworked a bit but I can't seem to find a whole lot more information about them. I wouldn't expect it to perform a whole lot differently to the Vortech unit, however even if it did I'd be put off personally by the lack of third party rebuild ability of it. They still do an ESS-625 which still uses the Vortech unit, so I'd be looking at that if the Harrop ends up being a no-go
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2021
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  3. 10 Oct 2021 at 9:37 PM #3
    m3 slider

    m3 slider On the path

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    I’m in the harrop, got to be 3 yrs now!

    love it

    not sure what else to say
     
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  4. 12 Oct 2021 at 12:13 AM #4
    1squadron

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    Thanks for your comments. I will get the Harrop if I can. I find the way it delivers power very appealing.

    Do you run a charger yourself?

     
  5. 12 Oct 2021 at 12:23 AM #5
    1squadron

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    Excellent to hear this!

    Hope you don't mind if I ask you a couple of questions?

    Do you recommend replacing/refreshing any other parts at the same time (other than rod bearings)?

    My car (E90) is currently on stock suspension, non EDC and factory 18s. I am tempted to upgrade suspension at the same time to something that might help improve body control ready for the extra power. Any thoughts based on your own experience?


     
  6. 12 Oct 2021 at 6:47 AM #6
    HARBER07

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    I have had the VF570 kit installed on my E46 since around 2015. The engine is currently undergoing major surgery but I have honestly had zero issues with the blower, the centrifugal type is a lot kinder to S motors with thinner rods due to its minimal low down torque.
     
  7. 12 Oct 2021 at 2:36 PM #7
    1squadron

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    Awesome.

    Yes I've seen a lot of people talk about the S series lightweight con rods. In my head though, if a Harrop kit was going to bend rods it would do it on it's first full power run? Or as near as dammit? I've not seen any evidence yet of rods actually being bent. BPM in the States are, I believe, running nearer to 700hp on their Harrop kit with, I believe, no bent rods. So I find that quite encouraging. But I'd be lying if I said this didn't concern me at all. I just really want that torque curve compared with a centrifugal charger!


    (EDIT: I've not looked into the turbo world at all for S65 so maybe there are plenty of bent rods to be found there!)

     
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  8. 12 Oct 2021 at 4:59 PM #8
    m3 slider

    m3 slider On the path

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    The centri kits add leverage moments on the crank due to pulley being right away from crank and there is discussions that journal 1 main bearing failures can be due to this on some engines

    the Harrop runs on the inner pulley (first one)

    ive done many trackdays with my Harrop no dramas, touch wood

    I’m sure there will be lots of ess owners chiming in to say there’s are fine but I’m just stating what has been well discussed in past
     
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  9. 12 Oct 2021 at 7:17 PM #9
    HARBER07

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    Interesting stuff. Like I said I don't follow the E90 world very much so I don't know the ins and outs, but I can add my experience with blowers.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't think the Harrop kit will add anywhere near enough torque to bend stock rods, it was more a general comment about centrifugals being pretty soft on stock internals. S54's are safe to around 700 wish on stock internals, and despite the S65 being an alloy block I don't think you should have any concerns with internals beyond the standard procedure stuff.

    I will add though that it is crucial to make sure everything is tip top before you get started. Brakes, suspension, cooling system, plugs, coils etc. It should be fairly obvious but it sometimes gets overlooked. If you do go down this route (and I highly advise it!!) I don't think you'll have any regrets :)
     
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  10. 12 Oct 2021 at 9:16 PM #10
    1squadron

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    Thanks both for your comments.

    I am definitely focused on what needs doing to ensure a good platform. I am compiling a little list which looks like the following:

    - Rod bearings
    - Check drivetrain mounts
    - Spark plugs (needed anyway)
    - All 8 coil packs? (Car is over 80k miles, maybe worth doing while it's open)
    - Idler pulley
    - Thermostat
    - Check suspension, bushes etc

    Pondering a suspension upgrade too.

    I don't think my driving warrants a brake change at this stage, though I do anticipate doing more track days in the future so we'll see.

    Any other preventative maintenance advice welcomed. The car is due a major service in the spring so will do that ahead of the charger install.


    Currently awaiting a price from Abbey Motorsport. :)
     
  11. 13 Oct 2021 at 11:55 AM #11
    JBristow

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    Here's a long thread on Harrop Official Harrop TVS1740 Supercharger Thread (m3post.com)
    The second post highlights the low down torque this kit produces (I think the figures are all "at the wheel") which, given that is the main criticism aimed at the S65 engine is low down torque, makes it a good option.

    You get what you pay for. Centrifugal is cheaper to make, cheaper to fabricate hardware for, and cheaper to tune. It also delivers less torque in the rpm range in which you spend 95% of your driving time. The ESSVT595 won't equal the torque the Harrop stage 1 makes at 2500 rpm until 6000 rpm. Centrifugals are great -- I have had one, but they are nothing like a turbo or positive displacement supercharger in terms of power delivery. If it is all you can afford, though, get one. Still a lot more power than stock and if you wind it up, it will go pretty well.
     
  12. 14 Oct 2021 at 1:13 AM #12
    1squadron

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    Thanks, have read that m3post thread end to end already! There's not so much info on the net on UK Harrop installs hence I'm fishing around for info and opinion. I am pretty convinced. Certainly of the torque curve. My uncertainty has more been around the map and driveability but I think that is more an issue for US cars.

    The only other thing I am unsure of is whether I should be adding anything to the kit? Like some kind of boost gauge for example? Advisable? Or just nice to have? I like the idea of having some visibility into performance/ being able to monitor for anomalies.

    I am completely new to the world of boost so any advice appreciated!

    @JBristow are you running a Harrop charger?

     
  13. 14 Oct 2021 at 10:33 AM #13
    JBristow

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    Not running one yet, but soon. As a result i cannot really provide meaningful insight to your questions, but from what I've heard its very driveable I.E the car can still be docile if you want it to be. My car is manual so that may make that easier?
     
  14. 15 Oct 2021 at 9:45 PM #14
    delfan

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    I've just fitted a used G power Sk11 cs kit over the last weekend. It is amazing bit of kit ive had great comms with Infinitas (Gpower) in germany via whatsapp and email.
    understand very rare to find a gpower kit in the uk.
     
  15. 16 Oct 2021 at 7:30 AM #15
    m3 slider

    m3 slider On the path

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    look at the p3 gauge, perfect for what you need on a charged m3

    shows boost, the very important iat, water temp, trouble codes and more

    If you upgrade to track pack like I did you can see afr


     
  16. 17 Oct 2021 at 9:22 PM #16
    1squadron

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    Docile by choice is a good thing as it's my wife's daily! ;)

    Also a manual here.
     
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  17. 17 Oct 2021 at 9:23 PM #17
    1squadron

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    Enjoy!
     
  18. 17 Oct 2021 at 9:26 PM #18
    1squadron

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    This is a very good shout. I will add one of these.

    Whay's the benefit of being able to see AFR? Assuming once the map is loaded I shouldn't have to play with anything? Is it just as a useful parameter to monitor in general?
     
  19. 17 Oct 2021 at 11:25 PM #19
    1squadron

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    Still waiting for a price from Harrop via Abbey Motorspoort - there has been an engineering change (injectors) which has necessitated a review of the price, apparently.

    Suspension wise I want to see if I can justify a set of Ohlins Road and Track to the wife. Seems just right for what I'm looking for and will hopefully clean up body control a bit. Would welcome any guidance in this area - some people seem to buy camber plates and different top mounts but not sure if I need either for a car used almost exclusively on the road?

    Are there any common wear items in the suspension (bushes etc) that would be sensible to replace on an 80k mile car? It's been maintained by a good independent BMW specialist for the last 40k miles so I trust them to pick anything up that's out of the ordinary. It is also due a major service in the spring so I can ask them to pay special attention to linkages etc.

    The exhaust is currently OEM with primary de-cat. I've read in a few places that it is very well suited to forced induction on the M3 and any additional back-pressure could compromise performance. Does anyone know if the Akra Evo would offer comparable levels of flow to to OEM with primary de-cat? Going with the Akra would carry the added advantage of offsetting most of the weight of the charger kit! Something I'd like to do a year from now. I love my current setup but am not a fan of it being a bit fume-y sometimes when stationary..... :rolleyes:

    The last thing I'm thinking about this week(!) is tyres. I would hate to move away from my current setup but people seem to go hunting for width with forced induction.. I run 265s on the rear, Michelin Pilot Super Sport. Hopefully they never discontinue them as I am very at home on them. I switch to winter wheels around November time which have even narrower, all-weather tyres on. These will NOT provide any traction whatsoever in the dry with 550+ bhp. So it will take some self control to drive this car sensibly in the winter. :)

    Does anyone know what is the widest you can sensibly run on OEM 18s?
     
  20. 18 Oct 2021 at 8:50 AM #20
    kimbow

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    If you can afford it, rather than throwing lots of money at the S65, put it towards an M2 Comp. I've had two ESS charged E92s, manual and DCT. Low torque engine, high revving and most power is at the top of the rev range as others have stated. Just a tune on the S55 takes it to a whole new level. I know, I've got one. Also with a manual box on the M3 changing from 1st to second under power is not easy! Good luck;)
     

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