S50B32 Schrick cams and timing

Discussion in 'E36 M3 (1991-1999) and E30 M3 (1986-1990)' started by Mike_VWT5, Feb 6, 2019.

  1. 6 Feb 2019 at 9:36 AM #1
    Mike_VWT5

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    Hi Gents,

    As per the topic really, I'm curious to know what people have found with Schrick 284 cams, and how much timing extremities you've gone too with VANOS throws. It seems to me, that most maps for a standard engine use between 5 degrees and 55 degrees on the inlet cam, and perhaps 5 through 40 on the exhaust cam. Reason for asking this, is I have VAC head with oversize valves on inlet and exhaust, and with the kinda of throws that are normally used on a standard set of cams, would render the valves awfully close to fouling when using anything with longer durations. To 'play safe' with this engine build (VAC 3.4 Stroker), I figure I should either set up the cams so that the inlet cam max advance is about 40 degrees, or set the exhaust cam to a minimum of about 8 or 9 degrees. In either of these scenarios, the valves will clear each other without any risks. My thinking is though, that with the exhaust set as above, maybe the idle quality and emissions will be adversely affected, or in the case of the inlet being restricted, maybe mid band/mid throttle performance will not be so good. That said, maybe the longer duration kinda negates the need for so much advance anyway? I know there are one or two seriously clued up guys on here, so am curious to know what experiences you've had with 284 cams, and timings (assuming standard size valves, and full advance can be used).

    Mike.
     
  2. 13 Mar 2019 at 5:50 PM #2
    S14

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    Mike, my s50b32 with a carbon airbox and “alpha-n tune” ran like dog **** after installing the schrick 284° cams. Kassel Performance In York PA reflagged my ECU and made the car run much better than the previous tune...

    Then I went and visited him and he uncorked the motor. First pull the car made 265rwhp on a very conservative mustang dyno (e46 M3’s are usually in the 265-270 range on this dunk), and by the end of the day, the car was making a consistant 309rwhp!

    The drivability of the motor now is fantastic, I can’t stress enough how a custom tune by Kassel made my car usable again.
     
  3. 13 Mar 2019 at 6:07 PM #3
    Iain

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    honestly mike i think you are going to have to try it out, if your retaining the vanos the advance can be tuned without mechanical adjustment.

    Logically restraining the inlet will hurt low and mid power particularly with large runners and valves as air speed will be lower so cylinder fill will be less advantageous, at the top end, not sure probably very inlet specific i would suggest and depends on how well the ram effect is working, if your getting decent + pressure then you would likely get peak fill in less time so its not deal breaker.

    To my mind there will be more had from tuning the inlet, so my instinct would be to set the exhaust in a position that gives you some adjust ability on the inlet and then go from there.
     
  4. 13 Mar 2019 at 6:52 PM #4
    Mikescx

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    Got really excited about kassel Performance, then realised they are not in the UK
     
  5. 13 Mar 2019 at 10:22 PM #5
    S14

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    No, but he can do remote tunes, or you can go with the known tuners over there. A tune for your car is so much better than an off the shelf tune, especially since your motor is far from stock.
     
  6. 15 Mar 2019 at 8:46 AM #6
    reggid

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    i would have only done oversized inlets and had the exhaust valves sunken a tad as exhaust can move a ton of air doesnt need any more valve area

    have you mocked up to see what it can tolerate? and limit based on that? is that what those reduced numbers are base on?

    you are correct the more duration the less range you need, as optimising certain events compromise others to more degree. for example to obtain the optimum IVC might mean the IVO is now too early and that hinders things more than what the IVC brings so the best position may need to be more of a comprise than with much milder stock cams. This is aside from any physical limitations just purely airflow dynamics which is strongly exhaust configurastion dependent at low and mid rpm

    how much you will have to be the guinea pig
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  7. 15 Mar 2019 at 9:59 AM #7
    Mike_VWT5

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    Iain, Reggid, thanks for your input!

    I realise that the Vanos can be mapped to keep it in the scope of where things can work, but mechanically it needs setting up/restricting in such a way to make it mechanically safe in case of any electronic failure. As you've said Iain, to fix the exhaust side at say 10 degrees minimum mechanical and allow full scope of inlet movement, makes the most sense. Basically, anything more that about 40 degrees of inlet advance results in the inlet vlave having to cross the path of the exhaust valve head. If the exhaust is advanced, this is no problem.

    Reggid... I did toy with sinking the valves (exhausts) a little, but didn't actually get that done. I think that given your input, it's worth taking another look at doing that. It probably won't take much to get it such that full movement of both cams can be done. Even if I can get it down to say 5 degrees of minimum exhaust advance needed, that would be just perfect, as I don't think that any maps that have been written will call for less than 5 degrees anyway. Either way, I guess it's only idle quality and emissions that would be affected by this anyway...

    Thanks for the input Gents!... :)
     

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