S50 B32 Refresh

Discussion in 'E36 M3 (1991-1999) and E30 M3 (1986-1990)' started by wrcarter, Nov 1, 2020.

  1. 9 Nov 2020 at 10:13 PM #41
    MParallel

    MParallel Achieved official socks

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2014
    Messages:
    2,692
    Likes Received:
    183
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Home court
    What're you driving?:
    1998 M3 SMG cabrio
    Colour Combo:
    Alpinweiss 3 auf Schwarz - 1 of 12
    He’a saying the exact opposite.
    He’s Pro ARP.

    ps I always wondered why these S50 crank throws are blue.
    Is that paint or because of heat?
     
  2. 9 Nov 2020 at 11:25 PM #42
    harrypevo

    harrypevo Achieved official socks

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2017
    Messages:
    2,007
    Likes Received:
    532
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What're you driving?:
    E30 m3, e36 m3, mk2 gti
    I don’t know if it’s the case on e36s, but on e46s it’s been know for the clamping force on arp bolts to distort the bearing cap and alter the clearances.
     
  3. 10 Nov 2020 at 9:43 AM #43
    MParallel

    MParallel Achieved official socks

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2014
    Messages:
    2,692
    Likes Received:
    183
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Home court
    What're you driving?:
    1998 M3 SMG cabrio
    Colour Combo:
    Alpinweiss 3 auf Schwarz - 1 of 12
    I have no experience (yet) but I think I would go with new OEM bolts.
     
  4. 10 Nov 2020 at 12:49 PM #44
    henrym3

    henrym3 A mere Chipper

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2018
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    8
    What're you driving?:
    E30 M3 S50B32
    The reason I ask is that I read somewhere that you should consider new bearings and bolts around 100k. Never heard this mentioned for other engines. Perhaps someone could just tell me to stop reading ****. If I could find the article I’d put a link but can’t atm.
     
  5. 10 Nov 2020 at 1:28 PM #45
    MParallel

    MParallel Achieved official socks

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2014
    Messages:
    2,692
    Likes Received:
    183
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Home court
    What're you driving?:
    1998 M3 SMG cabrio
    Colour Combo:
    Alpinweiss 3 auf Schwarz - 1 of 12
    Honestly, it all started with the S85 engine failing bearing because of too tight tolerances. Then through internet, this somehow applied retrospecitevly to the S54 (well known) and S50 in its wake.

    So people now do it on their S50 too. Something that pre-internet, apparently, was a non-existend problem. Or the other wau around, because of no internet, people didn't hear about it.

    I think regular oil changes with the 'best' oil you can get and not revvingi it up past 7000rpm all the time will help a lot.

    My 0.02.
     
  6. 10 Nov 2020 at 2:23 PM #46
    henrym3

    henrym3 A mere Chipper

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2018
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    8
    What're you driving?:
    E30 M3 S50B32
    Sound advice, as I do less than 2k a year and an annual oil change I think I can tick the oil change box. As a bit of a side note and a laugh I have to save the oil for my mate to put in his van.
     
  7. 10 Nov 2020 at 3:01 PM #47
    Iain

    Iain Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2010
    Messages:
    4,417
    Likes Received:
    543
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Isle of man
    What're you driving?:
    AMG estate

    Any e36 pump will be fine, all the pumps can make the flow at that pressure, you dont need an evo pump. it may not do 100k miles but it will be fine for years
     
  8. 10 Nov 2020 at 3:11 PM #48
    Iain

    Iain Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2010
    Messages:
    4,417
    Likes Received:
    543
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Isle of man
    What're you driving?:
    AMG estate
    No, evo engines were throwing rods out before the s85 was a thing. Its generally number 5 as it gets more heat and seems to get a bit less oil flow. Its always been an issue just not one that was commonly addressed.

    The 3.2 is more prone to bearing failure as (in order of contribution):
    The stroke is longer
    The bearing diameter is smaller
    the compression is higher

    High RPM can cause the factory bolts to stretch, then lose tension, this results in a catastrophic failure.

    I do advocate fitting ARP's and i haven't resized the rod.

    The engine in my car is built this way runs an 8k limit and has run hundreds if not thousands of hours, the engine myself and a friend built last year has just won the britcar endurance championship and made more power at the end of the season than it did on the initially mapping, again, ARP's on stock rods, without being resized.
     
  9. 10 Nov 2020 at 4:00 PM #49
    henrym3

    henrym3 A mere Chipper

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2018
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    8
    What're you driving?:
    E30 M3 S50B32
    Interesting, when I did the conversion ( over 15years ago )the guy giving advice (also called Ian) was adamant that the 5 bar pump was a must, what a pita it was to make an evo pump fit into an e30 tank.
     
  10. 10 Nov 2020 at 6:39 PM #50
    MParallel

    MParallel Achieved official socks

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2014
    Messages:
    2,692
    Likes Received:
    183
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Home court
    What're you driving?:
    1998 M3 SMG cabrio
    Colour Combo:
    Alpinweiss 3 auf Schwarz - 1 of 12
    Ok Ian, thanks for that brief history lesson. My car is approaching 58k mls and mostly nanny vert cruising, so I am not too worried about it at this moment.
     
  11. 10 Nov 2020 at 8:51 PM #51
    Ollie

    Ollie Wearing official robes

    Joined:
    May 22, 2013
    Messages:
    360
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    28
    What're you driving?:
    E36 M3 Racer, 997 GT3 Clubsport, 996 GT3 Cup Car
    Stock rods, stock pistons, ARP rod bolts - the only major non OEM component being a set of mild CAT cams.

    It hauls. :halm: That engine has run for + 20 race hours since built, and makes more power today than it did when built. If they're built nicely and conscientiously, whilst being kept cool and suitably oiled, they will run and run in the most horrible of conditions.
     
  12. 11 Nov 2020 at 5:43 PM #52
    Iain

    Iain Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2010
    Messages:
    4,417
    Likes Received:
    543
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Isle of man
    What're you driving?:
    AMG estate
    people say a lot of things im afraid, often they are based on what the understanding is at the time or just because they know the theory rather than the practice. put it this way, there are lots of race cars and engine swaps running evo motors without an evo pump. Tommy lee ran a modified geoff steel racing engine in a 328 with no pump change for example.

    I am not saying using the evo pump is a bad thing, its the correct unit for the application, its just not specifically required to make it work.
     
  13. 12 Nov 2020 at 1:57 PM #53
    wrcarter

    wrcarter A mere Chipper

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2019
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    3
    What're you driving?:
    2005 E46 330Cd, 1991 E30 318is
    Cheers for all the help.

    I had an Evo pump on the shopping list as I knew it operated at the higher pressure but I will probably cross that off now. Thanks Iain, as Tesco says every bit helps.

    I had heard from a few sources to change the bolts and bearings around 100k as the bolts can stretch. It’s reassuring to hear the same advice here. Especially when I have ordered bearings

    Henry, yourself and Ian are one of the reasons I wanted to do this conversion. I used to enjoy reading your threads/posts on the zone.

    Not much of an update today as I have been busy in work but I have labelled and stripped the B30 loom off the engine. In doing so I noticed that I am missing the support bracket under the air box. So I may put that on the next order from BMW.

    Some B32 parts also arrived yesterday.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  14. 12 Nov 2020 at 2:15 PM #54
    Iain

    Iain Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2010
    Messages:
    4,417
    Likes Received:
    543
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Isle of man
    What're you driving?:
    AMG estate
    Getting there! if you get stuck on the support braket i may have one in the box of horrible oily old brackets left over from a few engines i have broken up.

    FYI Depending on what dipstick tube you have it may need shortening.

    you will see the difference in the length of the ITB's and the port match with the head now you have both!
     
  15. 12 Nov 2020 at 8:04 PM #55
    henrym3

    henrym3 A mere Chipper

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2018
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    8
    What're you driving?:
    E30 M3 S50B32
    I read earlier that you picked up an ECU you didn’t say if it was 3.0/3.2. I know the 3.2 is hard to come by. There’s a guy on here selling the 3.2 one. Ignore if that’s what you got.
     
  16. 12 Nov 2020 at 9:35 PM #56
    wrcarter

    wrcarter A mere Chipper

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2019
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    3
    What're you driving?:
    2005 E46 330Cd, 1991 E30 318is
    Thanks for the tip Henry but I picked one up a while back. The ecu that came with the engine was supposed to be flashed to remove ews and run alpha n. I was a bit concerned so I picked up another one. So now I have a b32 with full ews and a b30 one that came with the engine.

    Thanks for the offer Iain. I’ll keep you in mind.

    The dipstick is something that is in my mind but was going to bring it up then I got there. Since I am now using a front sump, from an e34 M50, how do I know I have the correct oil level. I will need to bend the tube a bit as it clashes with the vanos accumulator. I will also need to tee in the breather pipework.
     
  17. 12 Nov 2020 at 9:55 PM #57
    henrym3

    henrym3 A mere Chipper

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2018
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    8
    What're you driving?:
    E30 M3 S50B32
    I can’t remember if I used that sump or not but I do remember that when I took the original sump off I measured the dipstick depth then fitted the dipstick tube from the sump I was fitting to check it was in the same amount. It did need some manipulation to bend round the inlet but really really small amount. It didn’t have any detrimental effect on dipstick moving in/out.
     
  18. 13 Nov 2020 at 11:29 AM #58
    Iain

    Iain Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2010
    Messages:
    4,417
    Likes Received:
    543
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Isle of man
    What're you driving?:
    AMG estate
    best option is to use the tube that corresponds with the sump, bending it should make no difference as you only interested in the effective length between the sump flange and the base. the issue i had was the 3.0 sump was deeper so had a longer tube, but as i was fitting a smaller sump the tube had to be cut, i just measured up and cut off the offending bit, being that i was using a smaller sump i knew capacity would be lower but again i was only interested in the relative level.

    breather wis you can if you choose junk it all and just run a catch can, with it being an evo you wont need a valve to stop it over oiling the head so it should be fine
     
  19. 21 Nov 2020 at 8:31 PM #59
    wrcarter

    wrcarter A mere Chipper

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2019
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    3
    What're you driving?:
    2005 E46 330Cd, 1991 E30 318is
    Cheers lads probably just over thinking the sump. I don’t have the original sump to compare.

    Anyway a bit of work done. I got 2 large boxes of parts from BMW. Only a few parts in them but lots of packaging.

    I gave the engine a quick clean to remove the worst of the dirt and dust and found out that some components aren’t supposed to be black Who knew?

    [​IMG]

    I removed the cam cover and started to helicoil some of the damaged threads holding on the cam cover. I had some m6x1 inserts in stock as I previously needed to do some on my M42.

    The oil pump is now reassembled and ready for fitment.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    In the states it’s very common to attach safety wire to the sprocket nut to avoid it getting loose, especially if the car is used on a track. In Europe we appear to have better roads and tracks as Loctite seems to be sufficient so that’s the route I’ll probably take.
     
  20. 21 Nov 2020 at 11:08 PM #60
    Iain

    Iain Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2010
    Messages:
    4,417
    Likes Received:
    543
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Isle of man
    What're you driving?:
    AMG estate
    I lockwired mine, get it right and you can get it through the shaft nose. Ultimately I would rather be sure. There is a reason it's an aviation standard imo
     

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice