Poll for PM

Who do you fancy for PM

  • Sunak

    Votes: 60 60.0%
  • Truss

    Votes: 40 40.0%

  • Total voters
    100

gary w31

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A monkey would be much better than any tory.
 

Dcdad43

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I take it you may not be aware of some of the background leading to the recent claims that Johnson intends to put somewhere between 39-50 new Tory peers in place.

These people may apparently have "limited power" via the traditional understanding and enactment of their roles, but let's be honest, tradition is something that Johnson regularly wipes his @rse on.
Look at the efforts to change laws and protect those that have been in answerable positions due to their actions. Instead of following the traditional route of reprimand, Johnson and his likes seek to change rules and laws instead, to not only absolve them, but also to put them in a position whereby they become indebted to him. So whilst the proposed recruitment drive to the Lords may not offer obvious benefits, these people are in influential positions due to connections and money. Certain sectors of the media have no official role either, but look how they have behaved in order to promote Johnson's agenda, whilst downplaying his misdemeanors.

This article raises worrying concerns, and offers insight as to how it may open doors for corruption and bribery. I'm sure some will roll their eyes, oh no it's the Grauniad again, so how about offering some thoughts as to why Johnson is on this crusade in his dying days, if it's not for nefarious purposes? In short, offer another justification for his actions.

As for what's going on now with these 2 clowns, it's a sideshow, and perhaps another grand example of distraction tactics.

I remain to be convinced this is anything else but a route to indirect corruption, totally in keeping with the person that has hoodwinked so many.

We may agree on the desirability of a GE perhaps. As I've alluded to many times before, the immediate goal is not to put what any of us believe to be the most ideal party/leader in power, but to get the tories out, drain the swamp, be shocked at what comes out in the wash, and prepare for a fresh start, with new policies and processes implemented to prevent this state of affairs recurring. As I've said before, and now seen echoed by commentators, the simple fact is that Johnson may be incompetent, but he knows how to work our archaic political system and its rules. Don't forget his first test was the prorogation of parliament. That was found to be unlawful, but he got away with it, then just like the spoiled child he has always been, used that to push, and break more boundaries. Whilst little of it makes the news (surprise surprise) the sheer volume of actions he has had a hand in that have been found to be unlawful is shocking, and I'd challenge anyone to name another leader that has behaved that way so often, and damningly so, in matters that are hardly lightweight.


A GE does not drain the Swamp. A Trumpian suggestion. It merely swaps one dysfunctional idealogy with another, repeating a Trump soundbite is a little odd IMHO.

Suggesting that commentators are now echoing what you have said before is also a Trumpian trait.

I see that Grandpa Corbyn is suggesting that no more arms should be sent to Ukraine, yet another manifestation of what made the main opposition party unelectable at the last GE.

An 80 seat majority was hard to swallow? So many stupid people eh?o_O
A similar excuse that many like to blame for the loss they can't swallow way back in 2016.

As for civil unrest that you warm about from time to time again that's another Trumpism.
Planning a storming of Parliament?

No problem with the £3 membership that Labour had in place to facilitate taking part in a leadership vote?

Tests for UK citizenship but zero tests for the very small number of people who enter parliament other than winning a "beauty contest"
:think:
Lie detector tests would be a start for MPs, ideally before they get elected.:)
 

rsk21

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A GE does not drain the Swamp. A Trumpian suggestion. It merely swaps one dysfunctional idealogy with another, repeating a Trump soundbite is a little odd IMHO.

Suggesting that commentators are now echoing what you have said before is also a Trumpian trait.

I see that Grandpa Corbyn is suggesting that no more arms should be sent to Ukraine, yet another manifestation of what made the main opposition party unelectable at the last GE.

An 80 seat majority was hard to swallow? So many stupid people eh?o_O
A similar excuse that many like to blame for the loss they can't swallow way back in 2016.

As for civil unrest that you warm about from time to time again that's another Trumpism.
Planning a storming of Parliament?

No problem with the £3 membership that Labour had in place to facilitate taking part in a leadership vote?

Tests for UK citizenship but zero tests for the very small number of people who enter parliament other than winning a "beauty contest"
:think:
Lie detector tests would be a start for MPs, ideally before they get elected.:)

I think the next GE will show that the 80 seat majority very much consisted of borrowed votes.
 

Snowdog

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A GE does not drain the Swamp. A Trumpian suggestion. It merely swaps one dysfunctional idealogy with another, repeating a Trump soundbite is a little odd IMHO.

Suggesting that commentators are now echoing what you have said before is also a Trumpian trait.

I see that Grandpa Corbyn is suggesting that no more arms should be sent to Ukraine, yet another manifestation of what made the main opposition party unelectable at the last GE.

An 80 seat majority was hard to swallow? So many stupid people eh?o_O
A similar excuse that many like to blame for the loss they can't swallow way back in 2016.

As for civil unrest that you warm about from time to time again that's another Trumpism.
Planning a storming of Parliament?

No problem with the £3 membership that Labour had in place to facilitate taking part in a leadership vote?

Tests for UK citizenship but zero tests for the very small number of people who enter parliament other than winning a "beauty contest"
:think:
Lie detector tests would be a start for MPs, ideally before they get elected.:)

I'm not going to be drawn into an argument merely for the sake of arguing, but in principle would you not at least agree that something is very broken in our political system?
...something that has been exploited and abused by certain individuals to suit their goals, which don't appear to be to benefit the population they govern, but an elite minority as the balance of wealth becomes more extreme?

It's 100% clear that the current government has no intention of overhauling the system, and they are incapable of managing their own behaviours. It's toxic and rampant, like a disease that needs to be excised.
Only in the last 24hrs we've seen Truss backpedaling on her plans to create further wealth imbalance, and her excuse? It was misrepresented. Total bullcrap, and the evidence is in the public domain. There's another Johnson behaviour, instead of fessing up, it's always someone else's fault. I'd suggest that falls within the scope of Trumpian behaviour too, so it goes both ways.

To "move on" it's clear that major change is needed, and as it's patently clear that the incumbent crooks have no intention of fixing a system they abuse and corrupt even further, all I'm saying is a GE is one route to trigger change. If that can't open the door to change, what do you suggest can?

"what about Corbyn?" doesn't interest me in the slightest, he's never been in power and never will be, it's a tediously hypothetical non argument... and I have no idea about Labour membership - are you suggesting it was as blatantly open to abuse as the recently busted Tory membership situation? ....which has been demonstrated as open to foreign influence.

I see we agree on one thing though, lie detector tests. It would be agreeable if every current MP was tested too.
 

Iain

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I don't see any "moving on".

My magic 8 balls says:

Sunak should win as he has an actual brain, but wont so Truss it is.
Truss will fÛck it all into a ****ed hat by the next GE
The next GE will present the population with the following options:
A tory party that is unelectable due to all of the well charted past events and the fact it has a dribbling moron in the hot seat
A Labour Party that is so incompetent as opposition that have failed to be able to capitalise on the weakest leadership the country has ever seen
A Lib dem party that is still decimated and marginalized from the previous attempt at a coalition (so should be very gun shy of repeating that mistake)

The problem with people who always want change is that they seldom have a firm grasp of change to what. "we need a complete reset" To what? "Drain the swamp" and be left with what? Johnson was actually intolerable so it was writing on the wall however i think its the start of real problems rather than the end of them. the Tories getting a(nother) useless leader wont solve anything and neither will a hobsons choice GE.

Its a real fÛcking mess from what I can see, and I don't think there is a white knight waiting in the wings.

Apologies to be so gloomy.
 

lawsy

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I’m ashamed of the state of our political system.
So I’ll have a beer tonight and not give the corrupt liars another thought.
I’ll only have one beer, as I’m saving for the high electricity/gas bill later in the year.
 

Dcdad43

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I'm not going to be drawn into an argument merely for the sake of arguing, but in principle would you not at least agree that something is very broken in our political system?
...something that has been exploited and abused by certain individuals to suit their goals, which don't appear to be to benefit the population they govern, but an elite minority as the balance of wealth becomes more extreme?

It's 100% clear that the current government has no intention of overhauling the system, and they are incapable of managing their own behaviours. It's toxic and rampant, like a disease that needs to be excised.
Only in the last 24hrs we've seen Truss backpedaling on her plans to create further wealth imbalance, and her excuse? It was misrepresented. Total bullcrap, and the evidence is in the public domain. There's another Johnson behaviour, instead of fessing up, it's always someone else's fault. I'd suggest that falls within the scope of Trumpian behaviour too, so it goes both ways.

To "move on" it's clear that major change is needed, and as it's patently clear that the incumbent crooks have no intention of fixing a system they abuse and corrupt even further, all I'm saying is a GE is one route to trigger change. If that can't open the door to change, what do you suggest can?

"what about Corbyn?" doesn't interest me in the slightest, he's never been in power and never will be, it's a tediously hypothetical non argument... and I have no idea about Labour membership - are you suggesting it was as blatantly open to abuse as the recently busted Tory membership situation? ....which has been demonstrated as open to foreign influence.

I see we agree on one thing though, lie detector tests. It would be agreeable if every current MP was tested too.

This has a whiff of I'm only interested in a narrow spectrum of issues related to a particular colour rosette.

Yes the membership barrier to electing a party leader of a red or blue colour rosette is simply one of how much money? That's the game and some know how to game it.

The current government is always the worst government in some respects that has a long time issue, can't please all of the people all of the time, that's the nature of politics. A "national interest" govt, does on the surface appear to be solution in times of significant crisis, not sure despite, the hype of recent times, that anything short of a worldwide war is the trigger for that.

To ignore Corbyn on the basis that he has never been PM ignores the influence he still has over a party he once headed. His cultural architects are still there in the "govt in waiting" No different to Ignoring IDS, Williamn Hague etc never PMs but still had an influence.

Yes a GE is an opportunity for change.........................but you can have them too often, "not another one" unless of course you want to reduce the interest the wider electorate in the belief that will deliver a political advantage, perhaps. Turnout is currently on a downward trend, but way off the trough of 2001 that delivered a red rosette government. Recent history does seem to suggest low turnout delivers a red rosette.

We have tests for all sorts of things but the personal qualities barrier seems very low to be an MP, Lie detector tests that I suggested are maybe an extreme, but morality tests and tests of small range of characteristics we want to seen in those sitting in the commons doesn't seem too extreme. After all we only appear to find out via the media when it's too late in far too many instances that some MPs are not made of the right stuff.

Patience is a virtue................ a GE will be along soon enough to swap one sub set of undesirables for another sub set. :peace: How undersirable is the question that won't be answered until it's too late...................unless you have another GE in short order.
 

Dcdad43

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I don't see any "moving on".

My magic 8 balls says:

Sunak should win as he has an actual brain, but wont so Truss it is.
Truss will fÛck it all into a ****ed hat by the next GE
The next GE will present the population with the following options:
A tory party that is unelectable due to all of the well charted past events and the fact it has a dribbling moron in the hot seat
A Labour Party that is so incompetent as opposition that have failed to be able to capitalise on the weakest leadership the country has ever seen
A Lib dem party that is still decimated and marginalized from the previous attempt at a coalition (so should be very gun shy of repeating that mistake)

The problem with people who always want change is that they seldom have a firm grasp of change to what. "we need a complete reset" To what? "Drain the swamp" and be left with what? Johnson was actually intolerable so it was writing on the wall however i think its the start of real problems rather than the end of them. the Tories getting a(nother) useless leader wont solve anything and neither will a hobsons choice GE.

Its a real fÛcking mess from what I can see, and I don't think there is a white knight waiting in the wings.

Apologies to be so gloomy.

No mention of the potential King makers, the SNP? A party that the vast majority of the UK electorate don't even have on their ballot papers so can't vote for them?

Democracy won't terminate itself but, it's doesn't need to, it's getting plenty of help.
 

Derekh929

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Your voters ladies and gentlemen.
We are all looking for different things out of our politicians, some are more easily pleased, than some of our members, I just want transparency & acting in the best interests of the electorate, from some of them? That's a tall ask I'm aware, I'm all for honesty and integrity but that's just being plain silly, to even dream of that happening with current politics?
 
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Snowdog

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This has a whiff of I'm only interested in a narrow spectrum of issues related to a particular colour rosette.

Yes the membership barrier to electing a party leader of a red or blue colour rosette is simply one of how much money? That's the game and some know how to game it.

The current government is always the worst government in some respects that has a long time issue, can't please all of the people all of the time, that's the nature of politics. A "national interest" govt, does on the surface appear to be solution in times of significant crisis, not sure despite, the hype of recent times, that anything short of a worldwide war is the trigger for that.

To ignore Corbyn on the basis that he has never been PM ignores the influence he still has over a party he once headed. His cultural architects are still there in the "govt in waiting" No different to Ignoring IDS, Williamn Hague etc never PMs but still had an influence.

Yes a GE is an opportunity for change.........................but you can have them too often, "not another one" unless of course you want to reduce the interest the wider electorate in the belief that will deliver a political advantage, perhaps. Turnout is currently on a downward trend, but way off the trough of 2001 that delivered a red rosette government. Recent history does seem to suggest low turnout delivers a red rosette.

We have tests for all sorts of things but the personal qualities barrier seems very low to be an MP, Lie detector tests that I suggested are maybe an extreme, but morality tests and tests of small range of characteristics we want to seen in those sitting in the commons doesn't seem too extreme. After all we only appear to find out via the media when it's too late in far too many instances that some MPs are not made of the right stuff.

Patience is a virtue................ a GE will be along soon enough to swap one sub set of undesirables for another sub set. :peace: How undersirable is the question that won't be answered until it's too late...................unless you have another GE in short order.

I dare say we'll never agree on certain aspects of this discussion, but I see areas where I think we do, and I'd like to think if more of the electorate tried to see things that way, there may be hope yet.

I get what you're saying about Corbyn, and in all honesty I've never really grasped what he's about, I couldn't see a key message nor direction, but that might just be me. He may well have "back channel" type influence but the same is true of the likes of Johnson, regardless of his impending exit - hence my concern at this Lords malarkey, and a leadership voting system that seems open to abuse.

I definitely agree on too much change not being good. I saw the same thing working in a complex international work environment, and it was clear to me that too many changes, too often was just nuts. It's one thing to signal change via reshape, but entirely another when timescales are not adequate to allow that to happen.

As for tests, it's just a damn shame that the intention of the Nolan principles has been completely trashed.
 

Reeno

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I’m ashamed of the state of our political system.

And to think back in 2011 we had a once in a generation opportunity to up-heave the very system that created the status-quo with the electoral reform referendum, only to have the turkeys vote for Christmas and keep in the existing FPTP system, i'm still undecided if this outcome was driven more by ignorance or fear of change...
 

M3POWERBOY

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Is there an option for Kermit the frog?
 
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Derekh929

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IS here an option for Kermit the frog?
Kermit, will be working , closely with Micky Mouse, Basil Brush, on the new cabinet, along with miss Piggy, it’s all looking a bit better and reassuring with that line up Boom Boom
 

AgSurfer

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Final nail in Rishi’s coffin:

Tory leadership: Sajid Javid endorses Liz Truss's bid to be PM https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62410239

? Sajid getting on the ‘correct’ political side and I see this now as a very done deal.
 

fireblade1

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Have no words of how after getting rid of the most corrupt, lying ,incompetent Baffoon this country has ever known we are left with these 2 Imbeciles especially the thick as 2 short planks hand grenade Truss who only has to open her clueless gob and we have Russia Nuclear arsenal aimed at us , what a fookin nation of fools we are that we allow a few hundred faceless people to decide the fate of us all :bh:
 

ADL

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Have no words of how after getting rid of the most corrupt, lying ,incompetent Baffoon this country has ever known we are left with these 2 Imbeciles especially the thick as 2 short planks hand grenade Truss who only has to open her clueless gob and we have Russia Nuclear arsenal aimed at us , what a fookin nation of fools we are that we allow a few hundred faceless people to decide the fate of us all :bh:

couldn’t agree more (sadly).

How we are in this position boggles my brain.
 

rsk21

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couldn’t agree more (sadly).

How we are in this position boggles my brain.

Although a certain faction don’t like hearing it we are here as a result of the Brexit referendum.

It is directly responsible for the division in the Tory party and for the election of Boris Johnson.

The breadcrumb path leads to Cameron and his decision to try and placate the ERG.
 

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