Not Another Shells Post...

Discussion in 'E90 Saloon / E92 Coupe / E93 Convertible M3 (2008-2013)' started by Matt85, Aug 2, 2018.

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  1. 10 Aug 2018 at 1:48 PM #81
    PeteD

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    100% agree with this.... BMW would have done multiple durability cycles with the S65 and a thorough DV sign off up to and beyond a standard vehicle life cycle (likely 150k miles), these cycles would be harder and more demanding on the engine and vehicle components than most cars are subjected to, they would have likely not been ragged from cold every time they started a shift due to following a strict test plan. IMO the shell failures are down to abuse on a regular basis....... I guess that comes back to the earlier point on a note of guidance to educate people how to treat the car.

    The only way to know about the aftermarket shells is to run the same durability cyccle on these that BMW ran on the OEM shells..... who's going to volunteer the $1M to do that test, let alone do it ten times over.... unlikely the aftermarket shell manufacturers have or will.
     
  2. 10 Aug 2018 at 2:34 PM #82
    V8mike

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    Funny you’ve mentioned this peterD I’ve gone for acl bearings with oem nuts as it’s been tested by mr vanos using motul 300v 10/40 this is been tested on track days as well as roads after one year he removed the acl bearings to inspect them and guess what there was no sign of wear. This was used as daily car as well as track car warmed up properly and intrim oil changes in between service oil changes.
     
  3. 10 Aug 2018 at 2:53 PM #83
    Alex5000

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    So one vehicle? Over one year? So likely 10k miles.

    BMW would have done millions of miles in dozens of vehicles. Yet you will still go against their choice of bearing?

    If an alternate bearing was subject to the same conditions it could well perform worse? Wouldn't you rather choose the known quantity?
     
  4. 10 Aug 2018 at 2:55 PM #84
    PeteD

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    That's interesting to know Mike. However, this is not good practice for comparing data. The test would have to be 'apples for apples' as we say to compare the data robustly. What we don't have is the shells from BMW's test vehicles and so we can never ever know the answer.... maybe they had no wear after a full durability cycle? Maybe Mr Vanos's shells destroy themselves if ragged from cold only once.... maybe Mr Vanos skewed the results to ensure business as he does not have to worry about a mass recall like BMW do (controversial and I'm not saying he did but it is a possibility).... just too many variables to use this as reliable data.
     
  5. 10 Aug 2018 at 3:10 PM #85
    Helmsman

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    Hahaha, no thank you!

    You keep mentioning this mate, not sure who you mean? SYT is the only one I've seen with a sized (BE populated) track car, but this has from what he seen so far not involved the rod shells but rather glogged exhausts.

    Not fair with ACL mate. They've been around since Jesus ran i short pants, although with a short break some years ago, and yes producing race shells but piles for standard cars as well. They have their own fab, can't imagen they could survive on small volume racing only even if they wanted to.
     
  6. 10 Aug 2018 at 4:27 PM #86
    V8mike

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    My car may have fbmw service history but how do I know if previous owners didn’t have mechanical simpathy? You don’t? that’s why I changed mine for piece of mind as I’m keeping it. Now if I choose acl bearings that’s been tested by someone who rebuilds these for living my trust and guarantee is with him not yours Alex. My bearings was warn as expected and replaced so I’m glad I did make the right choice I’m not fan of lab oil tests I rather just get the job done Once :thumbsup:
     
  7. 10 Aug 2018 at 5:29 PM #87
    Raif

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    I'm pretty sure it was you who posted the link https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1333638

    Then scroll down to the end of the post:


    Thats despite photographing and logging every step on installation with the instructions on how to do so in a "world class diy thread".

    The motor had 33k to correct myself earlier. The shells he pulled had nothing wrong with them same as the second car they pulled shells from despite being told "these are not ok".
     
  8. 10 Aug 2018 at 5:34 PM #88
    Alex5000

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    I agree with you completely.

    Put your trust in BMW! After all you trusted them to your servicing all this time. They designed a high performance car which when treated right can do more than 150k. If you replace with OEM bearings, and then treat the car with mechanical sympathy then it stands to reason it will be 100k miles before they might need checking again.

    It's nothing against Mr VANOS or any other small company. But they just don't have the resources to develop an engine like a global automotive OEM does like BMW. OEM's don't always get it right, but you are choosing to replace a known for an unknown, which hasn't gone through the same level of validation. This isn't my opinion, it is a certainty. To second guess their choice just isn't science. Science and engineering is how your car has been developed by some of the best engineers in the world.

    At the end of the day, its your car. But I hope anyone on the fence who reads this would just stick with the OEM. It's exactly like the oil argument that everyone has been through - The risks far outweigh the rewards.

    If a bearing is worn, replace it; absolutely. Lab tests are a good indicator, but not a definitive measure so I can see why you might go straight to replacement.
     
  9. 10 Aug 2018 at 5:48 PM #89
    Raif

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    https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1337998

    This extensive testing which show that oem bearings are flawed in their oil flow characteristics but BE bearings are better...

    The results they use to draw that conclusion is the oil flow reading from a sensor placed in the line between the oil filter housing and oil cooler. It doesnt take an engineer to figure out that if the only variable was the shells and the oil grade, temps, rpm was common between tests yet the oil flow in the same pipe was different...and this is down to the 0.000x inch clearance difference between the crank and shells:confused:

    Someone genuinely needs to explain that one to me because it does not compute
     
  10. 10 Aug 2018 at 6:11 PM #90
    Helmsman

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    It is Friday but you drunk already mate? The DIY doesn't include a shell failure or even a 27/6 post. Believe I've seen a post on just that i.e. wrongly installed bearings but can't remember what supplier. Doesn't really matter in a case like that. Cheers.
     
  11. 10 Aug 2018 at 6:18 PM #91
    Helmsman

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    You are making me curious on your experience here. You certainly seem to have quite a bit. No being ironical here mate, just curious.
     
  12. 10 Aug 2018 at 6:24 PM #92
    Alex5000

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    If you scroll to the end of the first post there is update dated 27/6 which explains they had bearing failure. He edited the first post rather than a new post.
     
  13. 10 Aug 2018 at 6:44 PM #93
    Helmsman

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    Well thats another engine doesn't have anything to do with his machinery mate. SYT' engine has since sized but again as it seems due to completely different reasons.
     
  14. 10 Aug 2018 at 6:47 PM #94
    Alex5000

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    I'm not weighing in on your discussion with Raif. I'm just stating where the post was.
     
  15. 10 Aug 2018 at 7:58 PM #95
    Raif

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    As Alex pointed out it’s an edit to the first post regarding the bearing changed on that engine. On 26th of June 2018 he has added a note to the post to say the engine has now “failed”. The engine with the BE bearings.

    I’ve worked for 2 OEMs one Japanese and one European and also a component /system supplier. I’m a development engineer but have not worked on base engine design, only in driveline components, external engine components and some hybrid systems. In my old job I did get on well with an old guy who for the last 20 years worked on engine tear down analysis post durability testing and used to bombard him with questions daily mainly because of my interest in the S65 issues. He was someone who’s experience in internal engine component design and wear could not be questioned. Most of what I know about the topic and oil selection/properties is just knowledge that came out of his mouth
     
  16. 10 Aug 2018 at 9:54 PM #96
    crypticc

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    Has anyone got the real application asap? When browsing the web bmw portal etk using a gts vin it lists the same part number but with the note pop-up as follows. (Although the part is then displayed with usual 703 and whatever waa the other shell ending)

    Code:
    S9MRA M Sport manufacture
    .
    Special models with the S9MRA are shown
    in
    the EPC.
    .
    EXCEPTIONS:
    E90 M3CRT / E92 M3GTS!
    Parts differing from the standard
    version of the
    M3 are - N O T - shown in the EPC.
    .
    These parts and further information
    can be found in the ASAP at:
    .
    Parts and Accessories > M GmbH > Sport
    Manufaktur
    
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
  17. 11 Aug 2018 at 12:50 PM #97
    Helmsman

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    Ah, that was a note made by SYT in his DIY as another piece of friendly advice, not his engine though.

    Cheers for the input. So makes you yet another one in the bunch with automotive experience, which is why the forums are so interesting to follow! Heading up an (electronics) engineering company myself so know [email protected] all about mechanics and engines. Fortunately still able to read, and again certainly appreciate shop and engine (hands on S65) peoples actual experiences. Seems we have a different view on this which obviously is all fine.

    Cheers
     
  18. 11 Aug 2018 at 4:37 PM #98
    ChrisCC

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    So whats the conclusion then...

    BE Bearings Vs OEM...

    Thinking of getting mine done in a few weeks! 2007 - 70k
     
  19. 11 Aug 2018 at 5:03 PM #99
    Helmsman

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    Like Raif and Ian says - BE!
     
  20. 11 Aug 2018 at 8:31 PM #100
    alpina527

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    Absolutely definitely oem BMW bearings and bolts with yearly castrol 10w60 oil changes. No question about it.
     

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