Not Another Shells Post...

Discussion in 'E90 Saloon / E92 Coupe / E93 Convertible M3 (2008-2013)' started by Matt85, Aug 2, 2018.

Tags:
  1. 2 Aug 2018 at 2:29 PM #1
    Matt85

    Matt85 Wearing official robes

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2014
    Messages:
    414
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Blackburn
    Your Motor:
    E90 M3 Manual
    Just thought I'd share the photos of my shells just done on my 2009 E90 72K.

    Had them done when I bought the car. Some might say wasted money or paranoia, but I wanted them doing and that was that. :peace:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  2. 2 Aug 2018 at 7:08 PM #2
    Sp00ks

    Sp00ks On the path

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2017
    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Maidstone
    Your Motor:
    E92 DCT M3 & Audi A4 Avant Sline 3.0TDI
    Very similar mileage to my car, if mine are like that inside (something you can never know) I would be more than happy to leave alone. Mine is under AUC warranty I will decide what I am going to do when the warranty is up depending on the price for renewal. My car has had a fair few previous owners so although I know I look after it, god knows what the previous owners did.
     
  3. 2 Aug 2018 at 8:32 PM #3
    E92matt

    E92matt Achieved official socks

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2013
    Messages:
    887
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Biggleswade
    Your Motor:
    1998 m3 e36 evo convertible e92 m3 competition pack
    Colour Combo:
    velvet blue e36 m3 alpine white e92 m3
    Forgive my ignorance but what is the common problem? Is it wear? And if so surely it’s down to how it’s been driven, which you would never know unless owned from new. How much does it cost out of interest?
     
  4. 2 Aug 2018 at 8:59 PM #4
    Matt85

    Matt85 Wearing official robes

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2014
    Messages:
    414
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Blackburn
    Your Motor:
    E90 M3 Manual
    Apparently the tolerance is too tight on the bearings causing excessive wear.

    I think it does depend on how it's been treated, but as I havnt owned it from new I just thought I'd get it done.

    Cost 1200 with BE oversized bearings matey.
     
  5. 2 Aug 2018 at 9:10 PM #5
    kevM3

    kevM3 Achieved official socks

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2011
    Messages:
    6,821
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    cardiff
    Your Motor:
    2008 E92 M3 & 2009 123d coupe
    Colour Combo:
    Sparkling Graphite ,Black leather
    did you DIY? im thinking of diy'ing mine, its done 47k now, where did you get the BE bearings from? did you use arp bolts too?
     
  6. 2 Aug 2018 at 9:29 PM #6
    Matt85

    Matt85 Wearing official robes

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2014
    Messages:
    414
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Blackburn
    Your Motor:
    E90 M3 Manual
    Yeah used the ARP rod bolts.

    I got the bearings from Simpson's, but I do know they're on back order direct from BE.

    A friend of mine did the work in Blackburn called Jamie.
     
  7. 2 Aug 2018 at 10:23 PM #7
    philrob1

    philrob1 Achieved official socks

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    6,174
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Your Motor:
    BMW E92 M3 Dakar Edition, Noble M12GTO3
    Colour Combo:
    Dakar/Black
    Wow. Mine came out at 78k and looked nothing like these.

    Fwiw, I think the OEM bolt torque procedure is as much to blame as the tight clearance. VAC and ARP are the way forward
     
  8. 3 Aug 2018 at 7:05 AM #8
    Helmsman

    Helmsman Achieved official socks

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    Messages:
    727
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Your Motor:
    2011 BMW M3 E90 Comp Pack DCT
    Colour Combo:
    Alpine White, Black Novillo
    Another set of worn RBs. I completely agree the way the engine is treatet has a significant impact but as most these days are 2nd or more owners its tricky to know. And again, we haven't seen many shells coming out without wear yet. Guys like Skunk (or Stink was is?) is one of the few lucky original owners who can afford to ignore this, nice position.
     
  9. 3 Aug 2018 at 7:57 AM #9
    crypticc

    crypticc Achieved official socks

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2014
    Messages:
    737
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Your Motor:
    2012 BMW M3
    Contentious but latest discussionsnon the US thread suggest incorrect torque. Either too much deforming the bearings or too little allowing incorrect movement over time
    OE rod bolts are stretch to fit through a pre-torquing procedure and if not done thought they they then stretch over time. The thought is they then show wear just off the centre of the shells like these ones. Those that instead show wear at the parting line are thought due to over torquing deforming the bearing.
    There's also a couple of experienced folks on that thread who feel there's two similar but different non-OE rod bolts being offered in after market replacements but only one is correct (or OE bolts torqued correctly). The other non-OE bolt is deforming the bearing due to being higher strength and over clamping. They're forecasting wear on those bearings that have been replaced with the incorrect rod bolts but that just haven't been opened up again yet.
     
  10. 3 Aug 2018 at 8:07 AM #10
    crypticc

    crypticc Achieved official socks

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2014
    Messages:
    737
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Your Motor:
    2012 BMW M3
    What did yours look like? Can't find the thread/post
     
  11. 3 Aug 2018 at 9:49 AM #11
    TigMik

    TigMik Achieved official socks

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2009
    Messages:
    4,264
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Manchester
    Your Motor:
    M3
    Colour Combo:
    Ferrari Red CP83 ‘Ferris’
    £1200 where was that?
     
  12. 3 Aug 2018 at 10:14 AM #12
    philrob1

    philrob1 Achieved official socks

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    6,174
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Your Motor:
    BMW E92 M3 Dakar Edition, Noble M12GTO3
    Colour Combo:
    Dakar/Black
    78k miles, 3 owners, serviced as per BMW interval. Please click the image for larger pics, I didn't want to oversize them here.

    [​IMG]IMG-20180719-WA0000 by Phil Robinson, on Flickr

    [​IMG]IMG-20180719-WA0003 by Phil Robinson, on Flickr

    [​IMG]IMG-20180719-WA0004 by Phil Robinson, on Flickr

    [​IMG]IMG-20180719-WA0001 by Phil Robinson, on Flickr

    [​IMG]IMG-20180719-WA0007 by Phil Robinson, on Flickr

    [​IMG]IMG-20180719-WA0005 by Phil Robinson, on Flickr

    [​IMG]IMG-20180719-WA0006 by Phil Robinson, on Flickr

    [​IMG]IMG-20180719-WA0008 by Phil Robinson, on Flickr
     
  13. 3 Aug 2018 at 10:16 AM #13
    philrob1

    philrob1 Achieved official socks

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    6,174
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Your Motor:
    BMW E92 M3 Dakar Edition, Noble M12GTO3
    Colour Combo:
    Dakar/Black
    Not contentious at all and from what I can gather, just as much a factor as too tight gap between crank journal and bearing.

    The correct one you refer to are the VAC ARP-2000 bolts (specifically for VAC) requiring a torque setting of 45ftlbs
     
  14. 3 Aug 2018 at 10:40 AM #14
    PeteD

    PeteD Rocking a new hat

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2017
    Messages:
    511
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Essex
    Your Motor:
    e92 M3, Alpine White, Black/Carbon interior, Comp Pack
    I've been reading a bit on oil condition over time and how it reacts to temperature cycling and then how this relates to engine wear (specifically bearing shells). From what I have read, the 16k miles service intervals are not as bad as people think, perhaps even good, over time (and with more temperature cycling) the oil becomes less viscous and actually reduces wear on components (to a point as it allows a more even distribution of oil - particularly between shells and bearing that have tight clearance). This is maybe common knowledge. However I have seen many people suggesting much more oil changes to be a way to reduce wear.... the information I've read suggests otherwise. This is obviously coupled with proper use, good gentle warm up etc etc.

    Might be saying what you all already know but though it was an interesting contradiction to common conception on oil changes. IMO: I think an interim change around 50% of the i-drive request is OK but these guys changing every 2000 miles I think will do more harm than good long term.
     
  15. 3 Aug 2018 at 11:03 AM #15
    Helmsman

    Helmsman Achieved official socks

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    Messages:
    727
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Your Motor:
    2011 BMW M3 E90 Comp Pack DCT
    Colour Combo:
    Alpine White, Black Novillo
    There are plenty information available on our rod shells and bolts. In my simple view it boils down to; in a perfect assembly case with all tolerances on the right side the oil clearance is on the tight side but works - Hence we see engines running for 250k miles. Taking the crank/housing/shell/bolt clamp tolerances into account it potentially get too tight, engine abuse is another factor coming on top - Hence we see engines blow at 6k miles.

    Several vendors who have developed an increased clearance shell. If one choose to believe they do this for a technical reason, then I'd say it is a good idea to upgrade the shells. If one choose to believe they are doing this only to make money by differentiate (for the bad), then I'd stick to OEM. My shells came out in fair shape, but still some wear, hence I believe an increased clearance shell was good for my engine.

    Some pages I find informative:
    Various shells and bolts data: http://wiki.rcollins.org/core/index.php/Main_Page
    S65 shells specs: https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=892838
    Impact on oil flow/pressure with increased clearance: https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1337998
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2018
  16. 3 Aug 2018 at 11:10 AM #16
    philrob1

    philrob1 Achieved official socks

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    6,174
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Your Motor:
    BMW E92 M3 Dakar Edition, Noble M12GTO3
    Colour Combo:
    Dakar/Black
  17. 3 Aug 2018 at 11:25 AM #17
    Helmsman

    Helmsman Achieved official socks

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    Messages:
    727
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Your Motor:
    2011 BMW M3 E90 Comp Pack DCT
    Colour Combo:
    Alpine White, Black Novillo
    Yep, another interesting thread. One would assume this was a case where crank and housing had beneficial dimensions, and obviously torqued correctly by a guy like Malek.

    Your bearings looked quite good Phil, what did you end up replacing with mate?
     
  18. 3 Aug 2018 at 1:05 PM #18
    philrob1

    philrob1 Achieved official socks

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    6,174
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Your Motor:
    BMW E92 M3 Dakar Edition, Noble M12GTO3
    Colour Combo:
    Dakar/Black
    ARP-2000 and VAC coated bearings
     
  19. 3 Aug 2018 at 1:15 PM #19
    ShaunC

    ShaunC Achieved official socks

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2015
    Messages:
    1,006
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    SW London
    Your Motor:
    2007 BMW M3
    The problem with m3post is that everyone seems to have a vested interest in the solution and what brands to use, etc.
     
  20. 3 Aug 2018 at 1:35 PM #20
    Helmsman

    Helmsman Achieved official socks

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    Messages:
    727
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Your Motor:
    2011 BMW M3 E90 Comp Pack DCT
    Colour Combo:
    Alpine White, Black Novillo
    Thanks Phil. Oh, and realized after a quick glance that I missed the point in Malek's VAC thread; shells was coming out from the SAME engine. Yes, interesting theory on the bolts indeed.

    Any particular reason you went with 2000s instead of 625s Phil, other than "copying" Malek's clearly good combo?
     

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice