KARBONIUS AIRBOX. ..please break it down for a simpleton !

Discussion in 'E46 M3 (2001-2006)' started by turboman, Feb 13, 2018.

  1. 14 Feb 2018 at 11:23 AM #21
    Adamantium

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    Totally agree on the Martyn and Martin front.

    As for Karbonius being a cheap knock off, personally I prefer it to the Evolve offering on the design front. It is laser scanned from the OEM box.

    I am in the position of owning the OEM box and have no issue switching the the Karbonius.

    I want to retain the flap because I want the original functionality.

    The Evolve set up and the full Karbonius set up are about the same price, that said, I'm not sure that the evolve set up at £3k is not alpha N.

    If it is, there's no way I would pay the same amount compared with a MAP equipped karbonius set up.
     
  2. 14 Feb 2018 at 11:29 AM #22
    M3SFY

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    Geoff Steel Airbox with Map sensor re map by Martyn is tried and tested ( far Cheaper than carboniferous/OEM box but good quality build and CSL sound with ~360BHP
     
  3. 14 Feb 2018 at 11:41 AM #23
    Adamantium

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    Erm, geoff steel is £100 less than Karbonius.

    all other conversion prices are the same.
     
  4. 14 Feb 2018 at 12:17 PM #24
    TouringRob

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    Totally agree that a system using a map sensor is the way to go. However, your system IS Alpha-N. The CSL is Alpha-N with a map correction table on top. It is incredibly hard to use speed density with ITB's due to the massively fluctuating pressure within the airbox or near a throttle body. The speed density systems on ITB's that i've seen try to use a map sensor per throttle body and average the output to achieve load.

    Speed density use map voltage as the main load reference, alpha-n uses TPS voltage. From everything that I have read over the last few years the CSL uses TPS as its main load input - however I've not seen any real csl tables etc.

    I'm really interested in this as I would much prefer to use speed density with the stock ecu on a forced induction project.
     
  5. 14 Feb 2018 at 12:50 PM #25
    Adamantium

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    Do you know for sure that the pressure in a very open large airbox such as this design, is massively fluctuating?

    especially one designed solely for this purpose.

    Your theory makes complete sense, but I wonder if in the case of the OEM CSL, if the MAP correction table makes sufficient difference for it to be almost as good as a true speed density set up.

    I only say this having driven an Alpha N set up and also the stock CSL set up and finding the difference to be compelling enough to warrant adding the MAP sensor. I do admit it could have been a function of very poor mapping of the Alpha N set up.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
  6. 14 Feb 2018 at 1:21 PM #26
    TouringRob

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    No I cannot say categorically that this is the case with the CSL intake as I have never mapped one. However I do have a lot of dyno time with other cars + throttle bodies + lots of time going mad trying to make speed density work well with itb's + turbo.

    Depending on how and to what extent they use the map correction table then I can't see why it wouldn't be as good as true speed density under most conditions, the map plus the lambda should be more than capable.

    Either way - I would do exactly as you have done and insist on stock csl type install with map sensor!
     
  7. 14 Feb 2018 at 1:21 PM #27
    Jaxxman81

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    ahh..
    i apologise - i was blissfully ignorant as to Martyn's credentials and reputation..
    makes sense now:thumbsup:
     
  8. 14 Feb 2018 at 1:27 PM #28
    Jaxxman81

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    i need to get in touch with him and get the low-down
     
  9. 14 Feb 2018 at 1:38 PM #29
    Jaxxman81

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    please let me know where i can get an airbox and IAT for £1000-£1200?
     
  10. 14 Feb 2018 at 1:41 PM #30
    billyboym3

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    Sounds about right, I also wanted working flap like my csl.

    Both geoff steel and karbonius boxes sound superb.

    Dry by:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcTEzPOYqWQ
     

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