Formula 1 2021 schedule and discussion

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by toplad, Mar 15, 2021.

  1. 10 May 2021 at 4:22 PM #301
    Dcdad43

    Dcdad43 Wearing official crakows

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2016
    Messages:
    1,277
    Likes Received:
    664
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What're you driving?:
    E92 M3
    F1.............technically very interesting but generally boring to watch:D

    The only car equal machinery wise to Lewis Hamilton's on the grid is driven by Valteri Bottas.

    Arguably having two evenly matched drivers is the last thing a front running team wants, ask Mr Wolf about how easy he used to sleep with Nico and Lewis both in a Mercedes at the sharp end battling for the championship.
    If you want to see consistent nose to tail racing with positions swapping back and forth throughout most of the field across a major proportion of a race distance you are watching the wrong Formula. :bugeye:

    :peace:
     
  2. 10 May 2021 at 4:57 PM #302
    MaximumBob

    MaximumBob Flexing a golden cincture

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2014
    Messages:
    5,630
    Likes Received:
    2,055
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What're you driving?:
    2019 M5
    Qualifying has been extremely close between Red Bull and Mercedes....if you add up the 4 Q3 times, the difference between Hamilton and Verstappen is just over 1 tenth of a second.
    Given that teams must use the same PU strategy for qualifying and the race, one could fairly make the assumption that the teams are very close in terms of outright performance in qualifying and the race.
    The suggestion that Red Bull is significantly slower than the Mercedes but Verstappen is magically making up the difference is absurd.
     
    Sp00ks, Unit, 123dan and 2 others like this.
  3. 10 May 2021 at 5:11 PM #303
    Mitch2.0

    Mitch2.0 Flexing a golden cincture

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2010
    Messages:
    4,232
    Likes Received:
    173
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Carshalton Beeches, Surrey.
    What're you driving?:
    E46 M3
    Colour Combo:
    A mixture of brake dust, rubber pickup and dirt!
    This isn’t correct.

    You don’t understand the PU output in freeload vs race SOC.

    Just because a PU can qualify well (nearly on par with another PU) it doesn’t mean it will be on par in the race.

    This is the point I was making earlier.

    They removed the quali ‘party’ mode last season, this was just a type of map, all the manufacturers still operate a completely different engine soc strat during quali, they charge up, then completely unload the battery over a quali lap, with little to no clipping, in race trim they obviously clip every lap.

    The clipping efficiency of your PU combined with your deployment strategy means you can be very close in quali (as Honda are to Merc) but be slightly further away in the race, as is the case.

    You can keep saying this isn’t the case, but with the deepest respect it sounds like you perhaps aren’t as up to speed on it as I am, so shall we just agree that perhaps I’m right, and the Merc PU has the advantage in race trim?
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2021
    toplad likes this.
  4. 10 May 2021 at 7:04 PM #304
    MaximumBob

    MaximumBob Flexing a golden cincture

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2014
    Messages:
    5,630
    Likes Received:
    2,055
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What're you driving?:
    2019 M5
    Just so we are clear...the engine map used during the qualifying lap and for the race must be identical.
    There may be marginal gains to be made from electrical recovery, storage and deployment but are unlikely to be substantial...as Red Bulls race pace against Merc shows.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2021
  5. 10 May 2021 at 8:01 PM #305
    Mitch2.0

    Mitch2.0 Flexing a golden cincture

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2010
    Messages:
    4,232
    Likes Received:
    173
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Carshalton Beeches, Surrey.
    What're you driving?:
    E46 M3
    Colour Combo:
    A mixture of brake dust, rubber pickup and dirt!
    Sorry buddy, but you don’t know enough about F1 PU’s to really engage in this conversation accurately.

    You’re having trouble differentiating between the engine map (which must be the same) and the SOC, of which there are a dozen different options, and the race and quali ones are vastly different.

    I’m really sorry buddy, I’ve explained it multiple times, you don’t know what freeloading is, you don’t know what clipping is, I can’t explain this any more times.

    No, the gains aren’t marginal, if you and your opponent can both freeload to 100% over a quali lap, then the clip rate makes no odds, and you’ll be close in quali. (Assuming your ICE output is relatively similar).

    However if you can clip at say 43% of a race lap and another has to clip at 46% of the race lap to achieve a parity state of charge, then your overall deployment efficiency is obviously higher, and as such you’ll have a more competitive PU in race trim.
     
  6. 10 May 2021 at 8:01 PM #306
    Mitch2.0

    Mitch2.0 Flexing a golden cincture

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2010
    Messages:
    4,232
    Likes Received:
    173
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Carshalton Beeches, Surrey.
    What're you driving?:
    E46 M3
    Colour Combo:
    A mixture of brake dust, rubber pickup and dirt!
    I’ll make it simple:

    Quali - All PU’s fairly close

    Race - Merc PU bestest

    I hope you can follow this version.

    I’m curious as to why you persist in arguing back when you’re clearly not a clued up on the subject, how about just take onboard what I’m saying and learn from it.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2021
  7. 10 May 2021 at 8:09 PM #307
    MaximumBob

    MaximumBob Flexing a golden cincture

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2014
    Messages:
    5,630
    Likes Received:
    2,055
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What're you driving?:
    2019 M5
    Wow...condescending much...I'll leave you to your superior opinion of yourself.
     
    Steve Sarg likes this.
  8. 10 May 2021 at 8:11 PM #308
    Mitch2.0

    Mitch2.0 Flexing a golden cincture

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2010
    Messages:
    4,232
    Likes Received:
    173
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Carshalton Beeches, Surrey.
    What're you driving?:
    E46 M3
    Colour Combo:
    A mixture of brake dust, rubber pickup and dirt!
    Dude, your opinions end where my facts begin.

    Couple that to the fact that you’re getting half the PU regs wrong... Jesus, stop being so stubborn and just say, “Ah fair play, you clearly know what you’re on about, cheers!”

    I don’t have a superior opinion of myself buddy... that’s like saying someone who insists that 5+5 = 10 has a superior opinion of themselves... it’s not an opinion when they’re facts... stop being a fanny, and just take onboard the knowledge, I did one day!

    It’s like you’re angry I know about about this than you and just refuse to accept it.
     
  9. 10 May 2021 at 8:20 PM #309
    Mitch2.0

    Mitch2.0 Flexing a golden cincture

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2010
    Messages:
    4,232
    Likes Received:
    173
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Carshalton Beeches, Surrey.
    What're you driving?:
    E46 M3
    Colour Combo:
    A mixture of brake dust, rubber pickup and dirt!

    This is so wrong it’s unreal... they completely depleted the battery on a quali lap, they never do this in the race (except for the last lap).

    I’ll simplify:

    On a quali lap you’re barely gathering any energy for store (except via braking), you’re just discharging it completely over the lap.

    On a race lap you’re constantly charging and discharging throughout the lap.

    It’s great that you’re into the sport, but don’t be so confident in your technical answers if you’re just basing them on opinions bud.
     
    Unit and 325i like this.
  10. 10 May 2021 at 8:43 PM #310
    Schmeel

    Schmeel Standard amice donned

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2012
    Messages:
    3,755
    Likes Received:
    2,043
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Gatwick
    What're you driving?:
    997 Hartech
    Colour Combo:
    Black / Black
    Great discussion in here.

    RB seem to be attempting to poach a lot of power train staff from other teams (namely merc). Will be interesting to see how this plays out.
     
    toplad likes this.
  11. 10 May 2021 at 9:07 PM #311
    wkdtime

    wkdtime Wearing official crakows

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
    Messages:
    1,766
    Likes Received:
    673
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    West London
    What're you driving?:
    2019 F82 M4 Comp
    Colour Combo:
    YMB/SS
    Wow, with all due respect, you’re tone is condescending as f’cuk.

    Maybe with your technical prowess around F1 cars is wasted on us mere arm chair fans, try the F1 Technical forums, they’ll love you.
     
    Steve Sarg likes this.
  12. 10 May 2021 at 9:09 PM #312
    FrazerD

    FrazerD Flexing a golden cincture

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2016
    Messages:
    4,842
    Likes Received:
    2,308
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Suffolk/Moray
    What're you driving?:
    2007 B7 RS4 Avant
    Colour Combo:
    Phantom Black / Black
    I just see a bunch of blokes bickering.

    :thumbsup:
     
  13. 10 May 2021 at 9:15 PM #313
    Mitch2.0

    Mitch2.0 Flexing a golden cincture

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2010
    Messages:
    4,232
    Likes Received:
    173
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Carshalton Beeches, Surrey.
    What're you driving?:
    E46 M3
    Colour Combo:
    A mixture of brake dust, rubber pickup and dirt!
    I was patient for long enough, I explained it three times and he refused to understand, and instead waffled on with his utter nonsense, resorting to a simpler method of explaining was the only option.

    There’s nothing wrong with being an armchair fan, but he was harping on like he knew what he was talking about, yet he was getting all the technical aspects wrong.

    If someone told you the M3 is made by Audi and refused to listen to logic, you’d get wound up too.
     
    325i likes this.
  14. 10 May 2021 at 10:00 PM #314
    toplad

    toplad Standard amice donned

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2011
    Messages:
    3,645
    Likes Received:
    1,759
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What're you driving?:
    M3
    Colour Combo:
    Grey, red interior
    You are right when it comes to the facts, but there's no need reply in that tone, I think is the general gist
     
    Schmeel and wkdtime like this.
  15. 10 May 2021 at 10:56 PM #315
    MaximumBob

    MaximumBob Flexing a golden cincture

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2014
    Messages:
    5,630
    Likes Received:
    2,055
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What're you driving?:
    2019 M5
    Nothing wrong with reading the F1tech forum and repeating it here...no need to be an utter spunk bucket about it though.
    And I still don't agree that the current Merc hybrid engine has much of an advantage over Red Bull.
     
    Steve Sarg likes this.
  16. 10 May 2021 at 11:01 PM #316
    Schmeel

    Schmeel Standard amice donned

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2012
    Messages:
    3,755
    Likes Received:
    2,043
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Gatwick
    What're you driving?:
    997 Hartech
    Colour Combo:
    Black / Black
    I think I fall into a similar camp here, in that the merc powertrain is far superior (Honda have closed the gap this season).
    Yet as an overall package in terms of aero and set up, RB are not only there or thereabouts, I think at some circuits and on some tyre compounds they have been/will actually be faster overall.
     
    wkdtime likes this.
  17. 10 May 2021 at 11:22 PM #317
    Mitch2.0

    Mitch2.0 Flexing a golden cincture

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2010
    Messages:
    4,232
    Likes Received:
    173
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Carshalton Beeches, Surrey.
    What're you driving?:
    E46 M3
    Colour Combo:
    A mixture of brake dust, rubber pickup and dirt!
    I haven’t just read the F1 tech forum and regurgitated it here, I haven’t even been on it this year.

    That’s fine, you don’t have to agree on the colour of an orange either if you don’t want to, but unless you can substantiate your claim as to why you think the Honda PU is on par with the Merc, then it’s a wasted sentence.

    I’ve given plenty of evidence as to why the Merc PU is superior in race trim, you’ve offered nothing to counter my facts.

    Just saying “I don’t agree” is like playing tennis without the net.

    Your method of learned discourse seems to be: the opposition can provide as much proof as they like, but you only need to provide unsubstantiated opinions, and you still win - I can’t help but feel this won’t offer much success in life.

    I’ve already posted this video once, maybe you missed it, but I’m sure you’ll able to understand the delta plots fairly easily, maybe this will bring you round to seeing the reality of the various PU outputs in race trim without the variables of traction, tow, only drag needs to be taken into account, and we all know the Merc runs more wing angle than the RB anyway:

    I should add, this is in Q3, where we know the gap between the PUs is actually narrower than in the race:

     
    Last edited: May 10, 2021
  18. 11 May 2021 at 7:45 AM #318
    MaximumBob

    MaximumBob Flexing a golden cincture

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2014
    Messages:
    5,630
    Likes Received:
    2,055
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What're you driving?:
    2019 M5
    Indeed (at least the second part).
    The reality is that this year they are so close there is no definitive way to categorise Red Bull and Mercedes performance overall after just 4 races...especially in race trim where there are so many variables.
    The best indicator is always in qualifying where both cars are configured to their one lap optimum.
    This year both MV and LH have been extremely close in qualifying...almost nothing between in total.
    Depending on your preference...one could suggest that one of the two drivers is a better single lap qualifier (coughLHcough) and makes up for a small amount of deficiency in their package.
    There also has been some chatter for quite a while that Mercedes have an edge in the battery side of their hybrid engine but there is no certainty that it accounts for much extra race performance.
    Everyone gets to have their own opinion based on what they see in qualifying and the race...its what makes it fun to discuss (mostly).
     
  19. 11 May 2021 at 8:15 AM #319
    Mitch2.0

    Mitch2.0 Flexing a golden cincture

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2010
    Messages:
    4,232
    Likes Received:
    173
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Carshalton Beeches, Surrey.
    What're you driving?:
    E46 M3
    Colour Combo:
    A mixture of brake dust, rubber pickup and dirt!


    He was so apologetic after he overshot his marks a bit. I love the cult following his race engineer has already.

    He’s a lovely lad, I wanted Callum to win the championship last year, but after seeing more of Mick, I’m not disappointed he did.
     
  20. 11 May 2021 at 9:43 AM #320
    toplad

    toplad Standard amice donned

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2011
    Messages:
    3,645
    Likes Received:
    1,759
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What're you driving?:
    M3
    Colour Combo:
    Grey, red interior
    This is a fair and unbiased assessment of the differences between the cars

    Too slow or too many mistakes

     
    wkdtime likes this.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 2)

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice