CS values

Discussion in 'M3 CSL / M3 GT and other Limited Editions' started by Phil3103, Dec 4, 2017.

  1. 31 Dec 2017 at 9:07 AM #41
    estoril m3

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  2. 9 Jan 2018 at 9:07 PM #42
    Mr Whippy

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    I'm really fancying a CS but the prices are worrying me.

    I don't want to over pay just because BMW didn't sell many and they're rare.

    Does £18,000 for a good for age/mileage/spec/history on 80k ish miles sound ok?

    I'd rather pay a bit more to bring one up to/keep at good quality (racp, vanos, SMG etc), than over pay for lower miles and super history and still have thousands to spend in maintenance and devalue it by using it.


    So is it even a good idea to buy a CS to use any more?

    I'd likely do 5k a year miles, garaged, avoid wintery gritted roads?


    Boggo M3 with a fast rack and CSL reps gets me close for near half price.

    If I can feel that my extra £8,000 down should come back, give or take, when I sell, I'd be happier... but I'm worried these higher mileage ones will correct in value and only the garage queens will retain their values.


    Then again I intend to keep it a long time so the premium may melt away into irrelevance and I get to own a CS with the track DSC mode and proper faster rack etc.
     
  3. 9 Jan 2018 at 9:42 PM #43
    ScottB

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    Depends on the spec I guess, full service history etc. Which one are you looking at? Any links?

    Irrespective of the miles you do always bills round the corner!

    I’m doing around 3k per year in mine, as got a second car for work

    New battery, coil pack, spark plugs, dsc and wheel speed sensors since October!

    Probably selling mine in next 2 months. New clutch, Vanos, all clear on the racp.

    On 80k full bmwsh

    Only estoril blue CS in uk. SMG
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
  4. 9 Jan 2018 at 11:18 PM #44
    Mr Whippy

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    The car is at a dealer near York, £17,995. Interlagos with grey.

    Spec looks very high from what I know. I've had a 5 min look as I was driving past and it seemed in ok order, but from a brief history check it was perhaps let go a few times well over on duration interval.
    I'd have to fully review the car to be able to even consider parting with that much money.

    My goal is to keep it 10yrs+, assuming I like the car (it's replacing a Z4 I've had for 9 years, just I need a fun sports car that can do child duties now too), so I'm prepared for bills, I'm just happy if it doesn't depreciate much, never mind go up in value!


    How come you're selling? EB CS with SMG sounds lovely. Probably too rich for me though.

    Being a second car I'm a bit constrained on budget... just the CS has something about it. A lot of the fine criticisms seem to have been addressed and so I assume it's a perfect car to just keep standard and enjoy!


    Please PM me when you come to sell and if I'm still looking and if you're local ish I'll certainly be interested!
     
  5. 10 Jan 2018 at 8:17 AM #45
    ScottB

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    I’ll pm you later when I get a chance. Full on at work this week!
     
  6. 10 Jan 2018 at 9:38 AM #46
    pony

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    From a value for money perspective I don’t think any limited edition model from any manufacturer represents good value for money when compared with their base model because of the price difference.

    However because of the rarity and the kudos status the rare models go up. Example is E46 M3 CSL which then picks up the E46 M3 CS which is the best all round E46 M3.

    As for prices SMGII was more expensive when NEW. Manuals now carry a premium over their SMGII models.

    Think I’ve seen E46 M3 CS go as low as £10k up to around £35k.
    A few cuttershave sold their Manual for early 20s or mid 20s. Seen a Manyal CS go for early 30s.

    At £30k your not getting 3X the car of a £10k M3. The same with £20k. But that the same with Porsche’s and Ferrari’s. Your getting the much nicer more loved examples at the higher prices that not been bruvved or given the council treatment like so many E46 M3s on cutters.
     
  7. 10 Jan 2018 at 11:13 AM #47
    Mr Whippy

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    Yes there is an element of most CSs being looked after better as the owners have clearly invested more in them to protect value.
    And their residuals mean they're kept standard which is what I want too.

    The ones to avoid or appear over priced seem to stand out like a sore thumb.

    I'll definitely be going SMG I think.

    Still to properly go test drive and view M3s so that may change.


    There are three CS near me all at £18,000 but clearly apart in quality... so still some work to do, as looks and advert info can be deceiving!
     
  8. 10 Jan 2018 at 11:22 AM #48
    pony

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    I had a pre-purchase BMW Approved Used Car Check done before I bought mine. Worth getting.

    As for E46 M3 CS Models the main differences are it has
    CSL steering rack
    CSL brakes
    M-Track mode borrowed from CSL
    CSL steering wheel
    CSL handbrake
    CSL design wheels. Rear wheels are same as CSL. Front wheels are slightly narrower and lighter.
    All E46 M3s from 2005 Model year onwards also benefit from suspension revisions to reduce understeer.

    You would be surprised Manual E46 M3 CS are selling for £30k plus at Specialist vendors.
     
  9. 10 Jan 2018 at 4:47 PM #49
    Mr Whippy

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    Yeah the CS has the right mods to address the small shortcomings of the already good M3 package.

    How much was the AUC level check? If it's under £100 then it's a no brainer I suppose.


    I've no interest in a manual. If I do later I can always convert for a fraction of the price, then give a future buyer the option to have either.

    I'm hoping to go have a proper look this week. If I'm generally happy I'll get the AUC check and go from there.

    I'll be sure to report back here on my experience and if I do buy it, the final price I pay!
     
  10. 10 Jan 2018 at 8:20 PM #50
    pony

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    BMW AUC is £200-300
    Personally i wouldn’t bother converting as would devalue the car.
     
  11. 11 Jan 2018 at 8:36 AM #51
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    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
  12. 11 Jan 2018 at 4:49 PM #52
    Mr Whippy

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    Investment. The trouble is they don't say good or bad investment haha!

    Given the myriad of 100k miles/15yr ish issues these cars need resolving, none are good investment material until they're all done right and in a documented fashion.

    Until then they're just a high cost, low(er) depreciation old car.

    Maybe when any old CS is worth £40,000 I'll think differently, but while 50%+ of their cost could be swallowed up just righting a load of wrongs I'm skeptics they'll go much higher unless they are like new.
     
  13. 11 Jan 2018 at 5:34 PM #53
    pony

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    Buy bmw Insured Warranty if you are worried about big things going wrong
     
  14. 11 Jan 2018 at 9:26 PM #54
    Mr Whippy

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    £4,000 a year. Hmmm.

    Has anyone priced up the OE CS parts to do a CS upgrade?

    I'll still likely buy a CS, just a bit annoying being caught up in this speculative thing. As nice as the CS is, it was a cheap option pack.
    I'm really not sure the values will hold vs the CSL, so I'll be sticking with a cheaper one and investing in it to improve it, rather than paying £££ to see it devalue instantly because I used it.
     
  15. 11 Jan 2018 at 9:29 PM #55
    pony

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    Warranty prices depend on mileage and whether there is a warranty on it or not.

    Mine started at £85pm in 2012 and now is £114pm.

    Warranty price should reduce after first 12 monthsbecause in first year there could be **** loads wrong with a car with no warranty hence the higher price so I been told.
     
  16. 12 Jan 2018 at 8:50 PM #56
    Mr Whippy

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    Well I test drove the CS near me today. Also my first SMG and M3.

    Nice steering. Good rack speed. Couldn't imagine it slower in a normal M3.

    Nice engine. Seemed to have grunt all over in any gear. A masterpiece.

    Ok ride.

    SMG ok in auto and shifting manually. A bit dramatic at full attack, but then slow in softer modes.
    Probably fine with the CSL flash. Probably best with a manual if you're good at H&T (which my wife isn't)

    Ok overall, hard to gauge on a 15 min run. Not entirely keen on the engine. Expected more m54b30 with 2000rpm strapped on top but it's entirely different in almost every way. Feels more like my old GTi6 Peugeot, no bad thing but that was a tinny French hatch.
    Maybe it's my perceptions but it makes it feel cheaper than it is.
    Probably the nature of more revvy NA engines and ITBs, I've been spoilt by the m54b30 which is just super smooth and more pleasant nvh at the lower end.





    Downsides. After getting home and plotting stuff out etc, the first insp2 is 9k miles less than an MOT a month earlier.
    No proper stamp, just "performance cars Brentford" written in pen.
    Then last book stamped service insp2 was summer 2013 about 4,500 miles ago.

    Apart from that, fbmwsh and recent visits for airbags, rear diff seals, coolant, arches all re-done at BMW (looked perfect inside and out, not sure if new panels)

    So I now need to dig more to see if there was more work done at the recent visits (ie, an oil service).
    Unless BMW advised due to low mileage not to bother which I've known them to do!

    Also realised upon returning home that mot had lapsed in mid Dec! Not ideal given I'd just test driven it!



    If servicing checks out better than it looks I'll probably get them to put mot on, test drive again, then if still happy pay for AUC check with a mind to haggle appropriate amounts off!
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  17. 14 Jan 2018 at 8:30 PM #57
    imp

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    Get a decent warranty for peace of mind.
     
  18. 15 Jan 2018 at 12:03 AM #58
    Mr Whippy

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    At the right price (£16,000 ish I think) I'd be happy with the car as is, and then just have £4,000 ish set aside for any issues.

    In the long term I think history becomes less important vs a good ongoing maintenance record.
    Ie, if you've had a rebuilt engine at say 18 years and 125k miles then 'oil' services to that point become almost irrelevant.
    I'm under no illusions that the car might not be 100% reliable and not have the potential to drain some cash... but if it's underlying depreciation curve is even flat I'll be doing 'ok', so I'm happy.



    My main issue now is taking the time to test a manual and another SMG normal M3 so I can decide what I want, if any, and that what I experienced in this CS is 'normal'


    I'll report back on what I find about this CS, and if I do buy I'll share details on price.
    And if not I'll add what I know so others who might be interested can budget/haggle accordingly.
     
  19. 15 Jan 2018 at 7:43 AM #59
    pony

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    I would say the older a Cars gets the more history and maintenance records become important in choosing a good one. As when the car is new most are in good condition, most are serviced properly and most have FBMWSH and also most are OEM. That is not the case when they are older.
     
  20. 1 Mar 2018 at 9:22 AM #60
    Mr Whippy

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