Another Crank Bolt Capture Solution

Discussion in 'F80 M3 Saloon / F82 M4 Coupe / F83 M4 Convertible (2014-present)' started by cheveux, Feb 12, 2020.

  1. 12 Feb 2020 at 4:36 PM #1
    cheveux

    cheveux A mere Chipper

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    Hi all!

    So, i was searching for a good crank bolt capture solution in Europe that could send it to Portugal. I found Litchfield (UK) and it seemed a good choice (excelent in fact). But then i came across Philipp on Instagram (@that_nurburgring_guy) Is a mechanic ate Nurburg area, and works with Apex's cars and he told me to check Burkhart Engineering's solution, that himself install's them on BMW's at his shop.

    So i order the CBC from the website https://burkhart-engineering.com/54539en

    and it arrived today in two little boxes, one for the CBC, other for the bolts
    [​IMG]

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    I'm going to install it this Saturday. I will keep you updated.
    I'm running a custom tune pushing 545hp and 680nm/tq.
    Im running it for about 10000km now (6200miles) with no issues at all. But to be fair i don't push the car haha

    Ps. I choose the Burkhart over Litchfield's for no reason at all, and i now lost the integrated hex on the snout with this choice. No problem for me
     
  2. 12 Feb 2020 at 5:32 PM #2
    api330

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    Pls let us know how it goes
     
  3. 12 Feb 2020 at 8:27 PM #3
    mmmbubble

    mmmbubble A mere Chipper

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    Few hours work ahead mate. Cheap part to fix at least one possible issue as many say. Debating it myself.
     
  4. 13 Feb 2020 at 4:16 PM #4
    domf

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    I wonder which is greater. The number of cars that have had the problem or the number of cars with (in my mind unproven) fixes applied.....
     
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  5. 13 Feb 2020 at 4:22 PM #5
    YMBF80

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    Probably the latter. I personally don't feel like the F80 needs more power mods, but rather chassis mods to actually put the current power down.
     
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  6. 13 Feb 2020 at 6:09 PM #6
    AM4R

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    100% agree. It can barely put the power down that it's got. What are you gonna do with more unless you track it!
     
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  7. 13 Feb 2020 at 7:41 PM #7
    TerryLloyd

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    Easy to sort the traction out - good tyres and boost by gear
     
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  8. 14 Feb 2020 at 9:21 AM #8
    YMBF80

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    Which is where my money would go, rather than money towards a power map/increased boost.
     
  9. 14 Feb 2020 at 10:42 AM #9
    cheveux

    cheveux A mere Chipper

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    And why is the "Why more power?" a topic in this thread?
    Yes Probably the increase of power can result in a spun crank hub, but the cbc must be seen has a preventive measure for any S55, tuned or not.
     
  10. 14 Feb 2020 at 10:49 AM #10
    YMBF80

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    Read the posts and you'll have your answer bud:

     
  11. 14 Feb 2020 at 4:20 PM #11
    daggers

    daggers On the path

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    I've been speaking to Pure Turbos. They told me they've seen cars spin the hub, but they've never seen a single 'catastrophic' failure (IE, something that can't be fixed just by retiming and replacing the bolt etc. No engine failures in their experience. So... If I go hybrids I can have the fix applied, or I can save my money, and just have the fix done if it spins the bolt one day. The cost of 'repair' is the same as the cost of fitting the fix (IE, as long as the engine doesn't detonate, it's no additional cost to repair and fit the fix than it is to simply fit the fix). So in my mind, it's money I don't need to spend right now.
     
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  12. 14 Feb 2020 at 4:21 PM #12
    YMBF80

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    I've read that the fixes actually cause more damage than the hub slipping.
     
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  13. 14 Feb 2020 at 4:22 PM #13
    daggers

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    I would imagine if it *doesn't* slip, the next thing to give will result in a catastrophic failure somewhere I guess. I see the logic there.
     
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  14. 14 Feb 2020 at 5:24 PM #14
    cheveux

    cheveux A mere Chipper

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    There is, in my opinion, a lot of misinformation in this thread.

    First, Pure Turbos advises everyone to install Gintani's one piece hub fix to everyone that installs their turbos and go for big power. It's obvious: Has the OEM hub is a two piece hub, if it slips, it results in bad engine timing and can result in valves hitting pistons. And with big power...they hit hard! That's not cheap to repair. And for me its also obvious that with more torque the hub is more susceptible to spin since even in stock engines it has spun.

    Second, all the good fixes are keyed fixes, they don't slip. There is not (that i am aware) any record of a keyed hub failing. VTT v1 has failed, but it's not a keyed hub. It uses splines.

    My opinion is that for big power and extremely high torque, the hub must be upgraded to a keyed hub.

    In my case, I've done 10000km with a stage 2 tune with no issues. I'm installing a cbc just for a little peace of mind. I'm not installing a 3000€ hub upgrade if i'm not installing hybrid/Pure turbos or if my car is alright, but i'm installing a 300€ fix because i know there is a known issue about the S55 and also there is a possibility that the hub could spin. Simple.

    If after the cbc the hub spun, then i will be installing a gintani hub. But there isn't any record of a locked hub spinning with cbc (whitout money shifting).

    Where?
    With a keyed fix, the bold must back out 0.8cm or 1cm! That just doesn't happen.
    With VTT's hub, probably.
     
  15. 14 Feb 2020 at 6:43 PM #15
    daggers

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    From what I’ve read, it’s not on power that it slips - it’s the sudden let off of power. So power (or upgrades thereof) isn’t the issue.
    I’ve been running bm3 stage 1 for over 10k Miles, including four Nürburgring trips (150+ laps) and 10k Miles overall. No crank issues here, and I drive this car like I stole it.

    how many catastrophic failures have we seen? And how many cars are there out there? The cost of install simply isn’t worth the risk. loke any insurance policy you have to weigh up the risk with the potential loss.
     
  16. 14 Feb 2020 at 6:44 PM #16
    marrow

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    Sounds like you have done some research into this. Who supplies and foot a keyed solution like you mention in the U.K. and how much are we talking ?
     
  17. 14 Feb 2020 at 7:05 PM #17
    cheveux

    cheveux A mere Chipper

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    Yes, its not only power. It's the sudden change of RPM or sudden change of "torque"... like using Kickdown for example. I never use kickdown for that reason. Even with the car in stock tune, its unnatural in my opinion to change suddenly from 5 to 3rd while pressing the throttle. I prefer to down shift manually one gear at time.
    Its true that the number of cars affected is low comparing to the cars on the roads. That's, why, again, i'm installing a preventive 300€ "fix" and not a 3000€ fix

    Litchfield Motors (UK) supplies a crank bolt capture for around 150£, i don't know how much to install, but you can hit them up by email. But if it fails, they have a full hub upgrade.
    https://www.litchfieldmotors.com/bmw/m2-competition-f87-m3-f80-m4-f82-crank-hub-fix/

    Then there are 3 main keyed solutions
    Gintani (one piece solution): can be bought and fitted at Pure Turbo's https://pureturbos.eu/gintani.html
    Maximum PSI: Can be found at SSR website (USA). https://www.ssrperformance.com/products/m3-m4-s55-crank-hub-fix-kit
    Insane Performance: https://www.bm3tuning.com/m3m4m2-comp/insane-crankhub

    These are the keyed hubs that i know. Gintani is used by Pure turbos on their builds. Maximum PSI is heavily used in USA for Drag S55 builds. Insane Performance is a Lithuanian company, i've seen some good feedback too.
    I don't know any installers in the UK of any of this because I'm form Portugal haha, sorry. But they exist, for sure.
     
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  18. 14 Feb 2020 at 7:15 PM #18
    daggers

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    Yep that’s my point with the money. £3000 to fit the “fix” as a preventative measure, or £3000 to repair the engine if it does (possibly) spin. The odds of a total engine loss appear to be minute. (Of course mine will melt tomorrow and I’ll be on the forum crying into my cornflakes).
     
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  19. 17 Feb 2020 at 8:37 AM #19
    YMBF80

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    If I can be bothered, I'll find the threads and link it here, but it's easy to find on bimmerpost and on here with the search function.
     
  20. 17 Feb 2020 at 9:47 AM #20
    cheveux

    cheveux A mere Chipper

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