15 years left for hydrocarbon vehicles

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Pondboy, Feb 4, 2020.

  1. 12 Feb 2020 at 2:06 PM #121
    YMBF80

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    Why's it tricky? I personally don't see anything tricky about it, the whole thing is that the government wants to stop SALES of new petrol/diesel cars in the UK. If the export countries aren't buying into it, then there's no problem and the cars can still be bought overseas and exported overseas.

    Unless I'm missing something?

    Grant Shapps wants to bring it forward 3 more years, so 12 years left:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51474769

    The UK's planned ban on sales of new petrol, diesel or hybrid cars could start as early as 2032, Transport Secretary Grant Shapps has said.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2020
  2. 12 Feb 2020 at 2:27 PM #122
    GU60

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    What I’m thinking is the UK bans the import and sale of ICE cars from another country but then expects that other country to accept ICE cars manufactured in the UK and exported to them.

    I think that might be construed as a moral dilemma at least. Not that I am puritanically moral.
     
  3. 12 Feb 2020 at 2:36 PM #123
    cossie1

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    They may aswell ban it tomorrow.

    The effect will be the same as the infrastructure isn't in place now and won't be then either.
     
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  4. 12 Feb 2020 at 2:36 PM #124
    YMBF80

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    Maybe if it's an EU directive, then export will be banned to all EU countries. However I don't know if there is a ban in place for all of the EU countries. Do you really think manufacturers are going to stop producing ICE vehicles just because the UK is banning sales of it? Yes, they'll make changes and move towards EV, but I don't think they'll stop completely. I don't see anything tricky about it, JLR for example will still make their ICE vehicles for other markets and EV's for UK/EU.

    Overseas greenhouse gases is still a problem and isn't really addressed. US and China which are the two biggest contributors to greenhouse gasses at 40% combined like I said on an earlier reply. Unless those two countries go greener, our changes won't make a huge deal of difference to the world. I can't remember ours but for some reason 4/5% is sticking in my mind. When I was last in the states, last summer in Vegas, most of the cars out there were big burly trucks and muscle cars. Even driving from Vegas to the other side of the Grand Canyon (not the one closest to Vegas), I hardly saw any electric cars. Americans love their gas guzzlers and is quite apparent.
     
  5. 12 Feb 2020 at 3:00 PM #125
    toplad

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    The Uk's total emissions are less than 2% globally, so if we shut down power stations, slaughtered all the live stock and moved into a cave it would make no difference
    Cars are a percentage of that 2%, not much in real terms, but some serious money is going to be exacted for UK consumers to fund some thing we are being told we need to do, but actually can't really make any difference if India, China and the US don't join the party
     
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  6. 12 Feb 2020 at 3:08 PM #126
    YMBF80

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    My point exactly, so why ban new sales of ICE? I did think 2% and typed it out but thought it was wrong for some reason and then changed it lol.

    I can't imagine China, India and US having the same outright ban as what's proposed here.
     
  7. 12 Feb 2020 at 3:13 PM #127
    Tyreman

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    I find the whole thing totally outrageous to be honest, the government has spent ten years discussing HS2 and rail upgrades, three years talking about Brexit and now we're having a bridge to Ireland :roflmao:.

    I'm not trying to make any political statement here but surely non of this is actually going to happen anytime soon :rolleyes:
     
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  8. 12 Feb 2020 at 4:34 PM #128
    Toffeeman

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    Goalposts change. This 2035 deadline is being announced by a PM who will not be in charge to deliver it.

    As has been said previously, the infrastructure is not in place today and will not be in place in 2035. My guess is that the PM in charge around 2030 will withdraw the deadline or push it further out to a more manageable timeframe......say, 2135 :D.

    Check out Harry’s Garage on YouTube, his experience with the i-Pace in London sums up the problems with EV tech today.
     
  9. 12 Feb 2020 at 5:22 PM #129
    AndySM3

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    I heard today that they may bring the ban forward to 2032 possibly. I can’t imagine that the infrastructure will be in place by then.
     
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  10. 12 Feb 2020 at 9:10 PM #130
    4 Alpha Zulu

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    Just further to my point if the UK is the only country to totally ban new sales of fossil cars, could you buy a new petrol or diesel car in another country and import it as a 2nd hand car?
     
  11. 13 Feb 2020 at 8:39 AM #131
    GU60

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    Good point, and at the very least, they couldn't stop you driving it over here.
     
  12. 13 Feb 2020 at 9:40 AM #132
    rvbush

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    Oh dear, this brave new EV world! I doubt either 2035 or 3032 will actually happen, politicians only think a maximum of 5 years ahead and then in blocks of 5 years. It's pie in the sky boasting.

    Think about it. For a start if we sell approx 2m new vehs annually, then by the start of this brave new world, we'll call it 2035, there will need to be at least 2m charging points ready to go. We need to be installing about 500 charging points every working day from now until then, really? Also, the commercial breaks in Soapsvile can be clearly seen by spikes in energy demand on the national grid, and that's for electric kettles! Can you imagine the spike at 6pm when everyone gets home in their lovely EV and plugs in the fast charger! It'll be like that scene from the National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation when his lights finally work and everyone elses go out.

    For this to be a realistic prospect we should be seeing a massive investment in power supply infrastructure right now. Power stations take years to go online. Has anyone worked out how muich additional capacity is going to be needed? I doubt it.

    I have no beef with EV's, they have an important place, but they are additions to, not total alternatives to, ICV's.
     
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  13. 13 Feb 2020 at 10:40 AM #133
    YMBF80

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    I posted about this yesterday.
     
  14. 13 Feb 2020 at 4:33 PM #134
    zeta4

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    I read today that the gov is thinking about 2030 now! Complete madness !
     
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  15. 14 Feb 2020 at 9:43 AM #135
    bobG

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    One aspect which probably has been raised before - If the UK Government is ultimately intending to do away with all ICE vehicles, how are they intending to replace the lost billions a year the Treasury receives from fuel duty ? Currently, for every £1 spent at the pumps, they receive approx 75 pence.
    If this was utopia and everyone was to rush out and buy a new EV this year, the UK Treasury would have significant problems.
     
  16. 14 Feb 2020 at 1:12 PM #136
    cossie1

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    I'm sure they will just add it to the cost of electricity instead.
     
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  17. 14 Feb 2020 at 1:26 PM #137
    rvbush

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    Your EV will be able (by law) to communicate with your smart meter. Why else do you think we are being pushed so hard to have the completely useless things?
     
  18. 14 Feb 2020 at 1:33 PM #138
    4 Alpha Zulu

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    Would penalise everyone in the country who has a house; pensioners,low income families,people without cars or those that continue to use fossil fuel vehicles.
    I think they will introduce some form of road tax on EV where they pay per mile.
     
  19. 14 Feb 2020 at 1:55 PM #139
    tej

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    The UK is one of the biggest tax avoidance enablers in the World - they aren't worried about moral dilemmas ;)

    China is a massive market for ICE cars. China have their own models that are not seen in Europe. Usually the LWB models with larger engines and more luxurious interiors. They love a top spec Range Rover. All cash. They don't know what PCP is. The demand they create is the reason BMWs have huge grills.
     
  20. 14 Feb 2020 at 1:59 PM #140
    YMBF80

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    I've read things that say this is true but then also things from BMW stating it's not true.
     

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