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Old 13th February 2018, 01:36 PM   #1
turboman
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Default KARBONIUS AIRBOX. ..please break it down for a simpleton !

I'm totally confused about airboxes....

Snorkels/flaps/new ecu/remap/extra parts to fit etc

So me being a simpleton would like to ask.....can I just but a Karbonious and stick it in the car!!.....I'm thinking a remap is needed but is it essential?

Also what other parts or mods are required...

And what is this snorkel and flap thing......is it additional to the airbox and why would I need it ?

I'm simply after a better induction sound and if there's some performance bebefit that will be a bonus

Also how much do the remaps cost?....please give me an idea !!
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Old 13th February 2018, 01:42 PM   #2
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snorkel is optional.

If it's the oem one it just provides a flap that closes the airbox to make it quieter. To make this work you will need additional wiring and either a native CSL ecu or a modified normal ecu.

Mapping is not optional.

The standard car runs a maf sensor (mass air flow) to workout how much fuel is needed.

The airbox cannot work with a maf sensor another system is needed to tell the engine what fuel is needed.

This can be done by an alpha N system which is a label for the way the engine calculates fuelling based on throttle position and engine speed - it is a poor system and I would never run this.

the proper way of doing it is to install a map sensor which measures air pressure in the inlet manifold and run what is known as a speed density map.

Both these options require a remap, the second and much better option requires additional hard ware.
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Old 13th February 2018, 01:46 PM   #3
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http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/showthread.php?t=140240
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Old 13th February 2018, 01:52 PM   #4
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Right, i've just done this...

You need at the very least:
- airbox
- ECU that is an MSS54HP
- Intake Air Sensor
- MAP sensor (GM)
- various clips/screws/parts
- a remap to tell it to use the IAT/MAP instead of the MAF

The airbox doesn't use a Mass air flow sensor like the standard one, this is what the air intake and map sensor are for.

Snorkel wise, don't think you need one, just for sourcing air from lower down. I could be wrong, happy to be corrected.

I've done CSL clone (hence the IAT and MAP sensors) so this is going off that.

Install:
- you will need to wire in the new sensors.
- you will either need to remap the ECU in advance, or have a spare mapped
- if going full flap you'll need to wire in those as well, and modify the ECU to have an h bridge which involves getting one chip and 3 caps soldered onto it. I'm good at soldering, but even that is too precise for me, so my guess is unless you solder onto very complex PCBs that you'll have to get someone to do this. This is only necessary if you want the flap.

Having helped with the wiring and install it's not necessarily a complex job, but it is a bit seat of your pants if you've never done it. Mainly the wiring. with cross checking, triple checking, continuity testing, it easily took twice as long as the actual install bit.

There are a lot of variables such as how confident you are with wiring and working on cars, in my case, I can do simple stuff, but thought it better to take it into my mechanic. I did the recoding of VIN on ecu and figuring out the wiring and tracing, they did the install. If i did it again I'd be ok with the wiring having done it and knowing how it works. Probably could manage the actual install as well, although i'd still be apprehensive of scratching/mucking something up

The karbonius install sticky thread is a good place to see about costs and what you need. it's very comprehensive.
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Old 13th February 2018, 02:18 PM   #5
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Blimey thats some serious effort for some extra sound....dont think Ive ever owned a car that requires so many aspects to achieve an improved sound..

My e92 M3 just needed a cheap 2.5 mod!
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Old 13th February 2018, 02:19 PM   #6
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You do get a small amount of added horses, so it's not all bad!
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Old 13th February 2018, 02:55 PM   #7
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It's not extra sound, it results in one of the finest sounding cars on the road, along with the 355.
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Old 13th February 2018, 03:05 PM   #8
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So assuming I wento down the most basic root..what would be the total fitted cost for an up and running airbox ? Would £500 on top of the £1500 airbox be enough or will it be significantly more ?
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Old 13th February 2018, 03:08 PM   #9
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alpha n remap, geoff steel (cheaper) or karbonius airbox, you could probably get that done for £2000.

Contact martin for mapping.
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Old 13th February 2018, 07:53 PM   #10
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£1500.00 box
£400.00 snorkel , working flap oem with oem wiring + plugs
£110 oem filter
£80 oem pipe work
£600 for maping and fitting
360 BHP at 7890rpm on the rollers after, you can do it cheaper but I wanted the oem look and having had a CSL it looks know different
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Old 13th February 2018, 08:15 PM   #11
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You don't have to run the snorkel.

You don't have to run oem pipework.

You could get it mapped and fitted cheaply.

Alpha N mapping is not for me, but it works (poorly) and would get you moving until you did a proper MAP sensor install.

Last edited by Adamantium; 14th February 2018 at 11:19 AM.
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Old 13th February 2018, 08:22 PM   #12
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You don't have to do a lot of things but people do
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Old 13th February 2018, 08:33 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 64e 3m wmb View Post
You don't have to do a lot of things but people do

Spot on dude I mean Adamantium bought a OEM Csl air-box but didn't need to

Last edited by Tyler; 13th February 2018 at 10:54 PM.
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Old 13th February 2018, 09:12 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 64e 3m wmb View Post
£1500.00 box
£400.00 snorkel , working flap oem with oem wiring + plugs
£110 oem filter
£80 oem pipe work
£600 for maping and fitting
360 BHP at 7890rpm on the rollers after, you can do it cheaper but I wanted the oem look and having had a CSL it looks know different
This is what I've just been saying on another thread
Everyone talking about DIY wiring and getting bits soldered and using snorkel or flaps and then getting a chap called Martin to do a map (not saying this Martin fellow doesn't know what he's doing)
All sounds like a lot of faff just to say you bought a cheap karbonius airbox for £1500.
My thoughts are go oem if you can afford it, or if Evolve are literally sorting the lot out in a day where I can drive away and it's done properly for £3k then it's a no-brainer
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Old 13th February 2018, 09:21 PM   #15
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^ Lots of people with genuine CSLs and working flaps remove the flap to get the noise 24/7

So if you can get an airbox and IAT for £1000-£1200 and a remap from Martyn (as my mate did and Alpha-N ran fine) anything else is wasted effort. You coudld be done under £1500.

That puts the £3K into perspective. Work out how long it takes to earn the Extra £1500 and most people othan have time, and the fun of doing it lol

Or put it another way, flap is CSL wannabe, noise all the time is efficient (I am joking)

Last edited by E46CoupeM3; 13th February 2018 at 09:23 PM.
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Old 13th February 2018, 10:00 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxxman81 View Post
This is what I've just been saying on another thread
Everyone talking about DIY wiring and getting bits soldered and using snorkel or flaps and then getting a chap called Martin to do a map (not saying this Martin fellow doesn't know what he's doing)
All sounds like a lot of faff just to say you bought a cheap karbonius airbox for £1500.
My thoughts are go oem if you can afford it, or if Evolve are literally sorting the lot out in a day where I can drive away and it's done properly for £3k then it's a no-brainer
You’re looking at this all wrong. You’re in the priveledged position to have people recommending someone on first name terms who will fit and tune this to perfection. The karb box from Martin at ms motorsport (our site sponsor) is a work of god dam art. Martyn from ecuworx works with evolve to develop maps and even supercharger I believe. He literally makes the tool and writes the software that other ‘tuners’ use. He works with evolve as far as I’m aware to remotely flash their map via the tool he made. Do some research. Everyone is trying to help you. People are spending 20% of the entire value of their car in some case in the karb box and Martyn’s map and between Martyn from ecuworx, Martin from ms motorsport and karbobius I bet you can’t find a single bad review anywhere from anyone. You want the best this is the route to go. they are both lovely helpful people. I drove 8 hour round trip to see
Martyn!

Last edited by ADL; 13th February 2018 at 10:03 PM.
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Old 13th February 2018, 10:06 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 64e 3m wmb View Post
£1500.00 box
£400.00 snorkel , working flap oem with oem wiring + plugs
£110 oem filter
£80 oem pipe work
£600 for maping and fitting
360 BHP at 7890rpm on the rollers after, you can do it cheaper but I wanted the oem look and having had a CSL it looks know different
These prices are about spot on give it take and dependant on cars gearbox and age.
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Old 13th February 2018, 10:17 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxxman81 View Post
This is what I've just been saying on another thread
Everyone talking about DIY wiring and getting bits soldered and using snorkel or flaps and then getting a chap called Martin to do a map (not saying this Martin fellow doesn't know what he's doing)
All sounds like a lot of faff just to say you bought a cheap karbonius airbox for £1500.
My thoughts are go oem if you can afford it, or if Evolve are literally sorting the lot out in a day where I can drive away and it's done properly for £3k then it's a no-brainer
Mine was done in a day, just got the bits together took them to Carbon Mike with the car paid the chap job done, and I wouldn't say the karbonius is cheap, its just what look you want as every ones taste is different
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Old 13th February 2018, 10:21 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADL View Post
These prices are about spot on give it take and dependant on cars gearbox and age.
Well spotted, forgot the SMG bits
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Old 14th February 2018, 10:47 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADL View Post
Youíre looking at this all wrong. Youíre in the priveledged position to have people recommending someone on first name terms who will fit and tune this to perfection. The karb box from Martin at ms motorsport (our site sponsor) is a work of god dam art. Martyn from ecuworx works with evolve to develop maps and even supercharger I believe. He literally makes the tool and writes the software that other Ďtunersí use. He works with evolve as far as Iím aware to remotely flash their map via the tool he made. Do some research. Everyone is trying to help you. People are spending 20% of the entire value of their car in some case in the karb box and Martynís map and between Martyn from ecuworx, Martin from ms motorsport and karbobius I bet you canít find a single bad review anywhere from anyone. You want the best this is the route to go. they are both lovely helpful people. I drove 8 hour round trip to see
Martyn!
I entirely agree with ADL on the topic of Martyn! He's been so helpful to me on so many levels and keeps supporting me remotely now that I'm in Bulgaria. I've got the MSS54HP ECU from him with a remap, I'm just waiting for my box now and I have absolute confidence that when I install everything, it's going to be a flawless setup.
The best you can do it is talk to him directly, trust him and he will guide you through all of this.
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