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Old 14th August 2018, 10:57 PM   #1
Toady
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Default Swap tidy m3 for an RS4....

Would you? I'm tempted. My m3 is tidy with a nice spec and 70k. A dealer selling a b7 rs4 avant is interested in a swap with me. I've always liked them, and it'd fit my family etc in easier meaning it'd be used more. Only thing holding me back, apart from loving my M3, is the rs4 has done 120K. It does look tidy though, and unmolested.....
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Old 15th August 2018, 07:19 AM   #2
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Now that is a tricky one. I bought one for the same reasons as you, but kept the M3 too!




If it has done 120k miles you would need to look for evidence of:

- clutch changed
- DRC system fully working. Shock/valve replacement? Or DRC removed, coilovers fitted?
- De-coke performed?
- Condition of discs
- Bolster wear
- Axillary radiator condition
- Oil cooler lines

It is a good car for daily driving, family use etc due to being pretty practical in Avant form. It is not as fun to drive as the M3 though. However, lots of low down torque and cruises along nicely. Would happily cover long distances in it although it is pretty thirsty! Surprisingly quiet for a 4.2 V8. Full Exhaust system is next on the list for me!

What sort of deal are you being offered?
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Old 15th August 2018, 07:37 AM   #3
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The above is a pretty good guide to be fair.

When buying I wanted one with working DRC but having owned one I'd look for one where that's been replaced too.

I bought mine on 96k and its had the following:
Carbon Clean
Clutch and flywheel
Oil Cooler and lines
Oil Cooler lines done a second time and this time wrapped in denso tape so as not to corrode again
Both Auxilary Radiators done
DRC dampers all replaced (so they are all gen 3 now)

Since having the car I've done the lower suspension arms

The DRC has since packed up (don't know what's wrong with it as I can't see leaks but its gone very bouncy and I'm not prepared to throw more money at it so am replacing with Koni shocks and am doing the upper rear arms as you'd be stupid not to whilst its all apart)

I think I've seen your post on RS246 and the one you're looking at has the grandad seats fitted instead of the buckets too so bolster wear shouldn't be an issue but resale will.

Mine is going up for sale in the not too distant future as the Mrs has brought our wedding forward 12 months so I could do with a bit of cash and something a bit cheaper to run while we're saving.
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Old 15th August 2018, 09:35 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bennn View Post
The above is a pretty good guide to be fair.

When buying I wanted one with working DRC but having owned one I'd look for one where that's been replaced too.

I bought mine on 96k and its had the following:
Carbon Clean
Clutch and flywheel
Oil Cooler and lines
Oil Cooler lines done a second time and this time wrapped in denso tape so as not to corrode again
Both Auxilary Radiators done
DRC dampers all replaced (so they are all gen 3 now)

Since having the car I've done the lower suspension arms

The DRC has since packed up (don't know what's wrong with it as I can't see leaks but its gone very bouncy and I'm not prepared to throw more money at it so am replacing with Koni shocks and am doing the upper rear arms as you'd be stupid not to whilst its all apart)

I think I've seen your post on RS246 and the one you're looking at has the grandad seats fitted instead of the buckets too so bolster wear shouldn't be an issue but resale will.

Mine is going up for sale in the not too distant future as the Mrs has brought our wedding forward 12 months so I could do with a bit of cash and something a bit cheaper to run while we're saving.
Does your car have the plate RK06 ***? My mate just sold his and the bloke's in Shrewsbury.

DRC is easy to catch in time but it must be caught in time . It's firm when working but nice. I've heard too many varying reports about the Coilovers either being too firm or not as controlled as DRC to be convinced just yet.

I was tempted to go the RS4 way as well, but I could not justify the running costs, especially on a car that would partly be a daily.
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Old 15th August 2018, 10:25 AM   #5
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Does your car have the plate RK06 ***? My mate just sold his and the bloke's in Shrewsbury.

DRC is easy to catch in time but it must be caught in time . It's firm when working but nice. I've heard too many varying reports about the Coilovers either being too firm or not as controlled as DRC to be convinced just yet.

I was tempted to go the RS4 way as well, but I could not justify the running costs, especially on a car that would partly be a daily.
No mate, mine came with a private reg and is a 56.

DRC is crap, mine had all the dampers and hoses replaced costing the previous owners over 4k and something else on it has failed on it now - I could probably get it re-pressurised and see how I go but by the time I've thrown 250 on what may be a temporary fix I'm a good way to just replacing the shocks with something that won't fail again.

I've gone for Koni adjustable shocks instead which just seem like a better option to me as ride is a priority and I don't want it low.

Also coilovers end up getting salt and grit in the threads and corroding much quicker than a normal shock / spring set up.

Mine is supposed to be a daily but has been parked up 3 weeks now while I've been waiting for the new struts to arrive.
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Old 15th August 2018, 12:06 PM   #6
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Thanks for the replies chaps.

Bennn - I think I saw your post on one of the Facebook pages regarding your drc woes. Yes the non bucket seats do wear better but like you say, I ideally wanted the buckets, they set the car off from the standard A4.

Mirror john - Hiya buddy, we spoke via messenger only last week about this.
The deal was a straight swap. He has his up for 13k.

The seller says the history shows its had oil cooler replaced, so i'd assume the lines too, but didn't say when. I doubt it's had a carbon clean and it looks like it's still on the DRC, he didn't even know what DRC meant when I asked him that question yesterday. He also said it has no evidence of having a clutch change, but surely it can't be on its original on 121k?
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Old 15th August 2018, 12:45 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toady View Post
Thanks for the replies chaps.

Bennn - I think I saw your post on one of the Facebook pages regarding your drc woes. Yes the non bucket seats do wear better but like you say, I ideally wanted the buckets, they set the car off from the standard A4.

Mirror john - Hiya buddy, we spoke via messenger only last week about this.
The deal was a straight swap. He has his up for 13k.

The seller says the history shows its had oil cooler replaced, so i'd assume the lines too, but didn't say when. I doubt it's had a carbon clean and it looks like it's still on the DRC, he didn't even know what DRC meant when I asked him that question yesterday. He also said it has no evidence of having a clutch change, but surely it can't be on its original on 121k?
Hiya again mate. I personally like the DRC and will keep it for as long as I can get away with! I have just had some H&R springs fitted which give it a modest drop. Looks better but still keeps it practical. Audi charged me 213 for emptying the DRC system and refilling which I didn't think was too bad.

The bucket seats are a must in my opinion. They look really smart and hug you in to the seat. They feel so much better than my M3 seats do. I think as mentioned it will effect re-sale value if you don't have them. Saying that, high mileage will effect re-sale value more.



Other must for me was flat bottom steering wheel and sat nav.



I've got Auto lights/Auto dimming mirror/Auto Wipers too. The auto-wipers are handy. I've got the chill box in the glove box which is a bit of a gimmic but handy for keeping your one can of coke chilled



Heated rear seats are a bit pointless!




I would be very surprised if it was on the original clutch at 121k. Mine is on 69k and is but most seem to get changed before 80k. I'm dreading when it needs to be done as it's not cheap!


13k doesn't seem that cheap for the mileage done. However it comes done to condition and how it has been looked after. I guess it depends what you value your 46 at?
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Old 15th August 2018, 01:15 PM   #8
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Don't agree with the mileage affecting resale. It will obviously but higher mileage ones are cheaper in the first place.

So IMO you're better off paying less for one which has had everything done with more miles than paying more for one with 60k then paying for new clutch, drc, carbon cleaning etc etc.

FYI clutch, flywheel and revised clutch pipe on mine was done at 71k costing a whisker under 2k.

The buckets would be a must for me. I'd want an equivalent spec car without them to be at least 1500 less as a result.
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Old 15th August 2018, 01:33 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by bennn View Post
Don't agree with the mileage affecting resale. It will obviously but higher mileage ones are cheaper in the first place.
Obviously you are correct that a higher mileage car is less to buy in the first place. However op is looking at a 121k car valued at 13k intending to use it as a family car etc.

If you use that as a daily, and then try to sell it at a later date with 170k miles on it, you are really going to struggle to sell it for any more than peanuts; regardless of whether you have changed the clutch or not!

You are going to appeal to an enthusiast like us if all the big ticket items have been covered, but mileage is still king like on the E46 M3's and a lot of people will be put off it straight away when they see the mileage on Auto-trader before they even read the advert saying that you have changed lots of parts.

Just my opinion of course
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Old 15th August 2018, 02:05 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MirrorJohn View Post
Obviously you are correct that a higher mileage car is less to buy in the first place. However op is looking at a 121k car valued at 13k intending to use it as a family car etc.

If you use that as a daily, and then try to sell it at a later date with 170k miles on it, you are really going to struggle to sell it for any more than peanuts; regardless of whether you have changed the clutch or not!

You are going to appeal to an enthusiast like us if all the big ticket items have been covered, but mileage is still king like on the E46 M3's and a lot of people will be put off it straight away when they see the mileage on Auto-trader before they even read the advert saying that you have changed lots of parts.

Just my opinion of course
When its done 170k the same car with 80k on would have done 130k by then though, so hardly fresh off the factory line is it? The same car on 60k would be 110k so not exactly low mileage?

Sure you'll take a hit on the depreciation but this way its offset by potential running costs / big bills (which on an RS are very big bills) The work done on mine so far would probably tot up to about 8k (i.e. half the value of the car) and they are faults which will effect them all at some point...

Regarding what you said regarding E46's incidentally I sold my E46 M3 within a week of it being advertised and that had covered 123k.

There are always people who will buy cars with a few miles on the clock they just need to be priced accordingly.

IMO 13k is probably about right for an RS4 Avant with that sort of mileage and a sh1t spec so if you are being offered that as a straight swap for an E46 M3 you're doing pretty well!

Obviously, just my opinion!
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Old 15th August 2018, 02:18 PM   #11
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I passed on a 180k avant for 7k just to let you know about values with higher miles. Abit of a ****ter bodywork wise but drove well.

The 121k for 13k is a difficult one. I personally wouldnt buy it unless its a 1 owner car with full documented history.
Once they hit 120k plus they linger around for months and months and dont sell.
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Old 15th August 2018, 02:22 PM   #12
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I have limited knowledge of the RS4, but do have a knowledge of the motor trade, there will be a reason he is wanting to swap, traders never normally do this, they want yours for nothing and theirs for some 's. So it will be down to the fact he either can't move it on and thinks he can yours or he knows something you don't.

It may look unmolested, but how many owners has it had? Have they all been vicars and judges? you get my point.

If it was me, I would be looking for a fully spec'd example with a lot less mileage, but that is my humble opinion.

Last edited by Natand; 15th August 2018 at 02:23 PM. Reason: Poor English
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Old 15th August 2018, 04:34 PM   #13
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Some great replies thanks. There is another one i'm also looking at which has done 108k, better spec and had some big jobs done, as mentioned above though, he wants money on top.

The 121k car has had 3 previous owners. I think he's had it for quite a few months as dash image shows a date in april. So he's probably thinking it's just good to get rid.....I think he is a smaller part time dealer as only has one other car for sale, then is trying to sell some private plates.
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Old 15th August 2018, 05:28 PM   #14
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Not surprised if you are looking to swap an E46. I'm surprised a dealer offered you 13k part ex for it!
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Old 15th August 2018, 09:28 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bennn View Post
Not surprised if you are looking to swap an E46. I'm surprised a dealer offered you 13k part ex for it!
Well I guess his is a 121k mile rs4 and mine is an excellent condition 70k miles silver grey coupe with fsh and nice mods -

AP Racing 6 pots, hel braided lines all round, hack wheel studs and h&r spacers, polybushed, GSR CSL style carbon intake, live remap done by m3 carbon, smg csl update, new clutch, GPS, guibo, insp2 just done, good 18's, CSL carbon rear diffuser, scorpion exhaust, engine rebuild with forged mahle pistons, all new oem bearings, ARP rod bolts and ARP head studs/nuts, vanos rebuild, so it's a good un.....

Hence it's probably worth more than the rs4's 13k price.
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