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Old 11th January 2018, 08:26 PM   #1
Gazc
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Hi

I have just sold my Z4M and am looking for an E92 M3 what is more important age, spec or mileage. I am looking at a few cars but cant work out which one to buy.
All help welcome.
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Old 11th January 2018, 08:43 PM   #2
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Condition?
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Old 11th January 2018, 08:46 PM   #3
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Condition and history would be top of my list.
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Old 12th January 2018, 08:45 AM   #4
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Definitely condition and service history. With the history, i would go as far as to say that you don't need to get hung up on BMW service history either.
You could have a car that's got 30k on the clock and could be absolutely ruined, or you could have a car that's done 100k and been relentlessly looked after all of it's life.

Last edited by abeardo83; 12th January 2018 at 08:47 AM.
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Old 12th January 2018, 06:11 PM   #5
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Hello Gaz,

Good question, but ultimately everyone has their own answer. It depends on how long you want to keep the car for, what spec you value, and how willing you are to undertake work and spend additional money on the car over time.

If you are the kind of guy that want a short-term car to enjoy, then you'll likely want a get-in-and-drive car in good nick, which can easily be sold later without spending any money on it, and probably don't care much about miles or spec and the price you buy for and sell later will reflect that.

I take a different attitude. Historically, on all my cars, I value spec and mileage (the latter is king and can never be changed) most highly. Whilst I value condition very much as well (bodywork especially), I am willing to address a bit of of paint on a scuffed bumper, I don't care if wheels are kerbed and tatty, nor if tyres are bald and brakes need doing all around - none of that bothers me - as I can sort and replace all that in time, as long as underneath there is a solid and desirable car. Once I've finished, my cars are immaculate and completely sorted. And because I bought right in the first place, they also have low miles and high spec... Completing the Holy Trinity of condition, mileage and spec.

My preference is as follows:

1. Perfect service history. Goes without saying. This can never be changed as is crucial on ///M cars.

2. Low miles. This can also never be changed, so the lower the better, for me anyway. It's something I value, especially as I cannot influence it later. I do about 8k a year, and would not like to have bought a 65k mile car, knowing after a few years it will be touching 90k. My current car was bought with 27k on it, and I can drive it daily for years, without it even reaching 60k. That pleases me.

3. Spec. This also includes rarity - which is why I now have a Monte Carlo Edition M3. I would advise you to by a Comp Pack at the very least, but you also have Edition models (like mine), Frozen Editions, Performance Editions, LE500s etc etc. Not all optional extras are essential, and we all have different priorities, but I love my music so for me it had to have Harmon Kardon (13 speaker Hifi with DSP) and also had to have the later CIC navigation system with hard-drive music. This is on cars build from mid 2009. The older CCC system is clunky and archaic, and expensive to retrofit. I also had to have heated seats etc. What do you want from your car?

4. Cosmetics / Condition - I obviously want a rock-solid base to start from, so it cannot have anything terminal (like rust or need a complete side painting etc) but a scuffed bumper / skirt is ok, an iffy parking sensor is no problem, a couple of easily removed dents and tatty wheels is fine. I can sort all that. Its knowing what you can sort and what you need to leave alone. This comes with experience and knowing a bodyshop you can trust!

5. Age - Probably last on the list. Definitely wouldn't want an early one (2007, 2008 or early 2009 due to the old computer system as mentioned before) but as long as it had the CIC system, I didn't care whether it was mid 2009 or 2013. as long as the car is in great condition and drives tight, this is of no consequence to me. As the cars all get older, no one cares about the specific year, as long as the history, mileage and condition are desirable. Ask any of the longer term BMW fans on here, it happened with the E46 M3: the year of manufacturer mattered less and less as they got older and all anyone cared about was whether they were facelift or non-facelift, what spec and what mileage.

Hope thats helped a bit. If you have any questions about the E9X M3 model to help you whittle down what you're specifically after, just ask mate.

Last edited by Keith; 12th January 2018 at 06:21 PM.
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Old 12th January 2018, 06:36 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith View Post
Hello Gaz,

Good question, but ultimately everyone has their own answer. It depends on how long you want to keep the car for, what spec you value, and how willing you are to undertake work and spend additional money on the car over time.

If you are the kind of guy that want a short-term car to enjoy, then you'll likely want a get-in-and-drive car in good nick, which can easily be sold later without spending any money on it, and probably don't care much about miles or spec and the price you buy for and sell later will reflect that.

I take a different attitude. Historically, on all my cars, I value spec and mileage (the latter is king and can never be changed) most highly. Whilst I value condition very much as well (bodywork especially), I am willing to address a bit of of paint on a scuffed bumper, I don't care if wheels are kerbed and tatty, nor if tyres are bald and brakes need doing all around - none of that bothers me - as I can sort and replace all that in time, as long as underneath there is a solid and desirable car. Once I've finished, my cars are immaculate and completely sorted. And because I bought right in the first place, they also have low miles and high spec... Completing the Holy Trinity of condition, mileage and spec.

My preference is as follows:

1. Perfect service history. Goes without saying. This can never be changed as is crucial on ///M cars.

2. Low miles. This can also never be changed, so the lower the better, for me anyway. It's something I value, especially as I cannot influence it later. I do about 8k a year, and would not like to have bought a 65k mile car, knowing after a few years it will be touching 90k. My current car was bought with 27k on it, and I can drive it daily for years, without it even reaching 60k. That pleases me.

3. Spec. This also includes rarity - which is why I now have a Monte Carlo Edition M3. I would advise you to by a Comp Pack at the very least, but you also have Edition models (like mine), Frozen Editions, Performance Editions, LE500s etc etc. Not all optional extras are essential, and we all have different priorities, but I love my music so for me it had to have Harmon Kardon (13 speaker Hifi with DSP) and also had to have the later CIC navigation system with hard-drive music. This is on cars build from mid 2009. The older CCC system is clunky and archaic, and expensive to retrofit. I also had to have heated seats etc. What do you want from your car?

4. Cosmetics / Condition - I obviously want a rock-solid base to start from, so it cannot have anything terminal (like rust or need a complete side painting etc) but a scuffed bumper / skirt is ok, an iffy parking sensor is no problem, a couple of easily removed dents and tatty wheels is fine. I can sort all that. Its knowing what you can sort and what you need to leave alone. This comes with experience and knowing a bodyshop you can trust!

5. Age - Probably last on the list. Definitely wouldn't want an early one (2007, 2008 or early 2009 due to the old computer system as mentioned before) but as long as it had the CIC system, I didn't care whether it was mid 2009 or 2013. as long as the car is in great condition and drives tight, this is of no consequence to me. As the cars all get older, no one cares about the specific year, as long as the history, mileage and condition are desirable. Ask any of the longer term BMW fans on here, it happened with the E46 M3: the year of manufacturer mattered less and less as they got older and all anyone cared about was whether they were facelift or non-facelift, what spec and what mileage.

Hope thats helped a bit. If you have any questions about the E9X M3 model to help you whittle down what you're specifically after, just ask mate.
What Keith said
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Old 12th January 2018, 08:11 PM   #7
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Thanks for that comprehensive write up but it appears my budget of up to 20k puts me in the low mileage good spec pre facelift or higher mileage lower spec facelift. Still undecided which is best.
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Old 12th January 2018, 10:14 PM   #8
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There’s also a buyers guide on here, 2nd thread
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Old 13th January 2018, 12:45 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazc View Post
Thanks for that comprehensive write up but it appears my budget of up to 20k puts me in the low mileage good spec pre facelift or higher mileage lower spec facelift. Still undecided which is best.
I also think history and mileage are very important. So if youíre going to put a fair mileage on or keep the car a long time, Iíd go older with low mileage. If you do low miles then go newer with higher miles. Dont be scared of the CCC cars they really are not as bad as some would make out. Find someone with both to see if thatís a concern. The older these cars become (the very newest is now 4 plus yrs) the less of an issue age becomes.

Good luck finding the right car. If youre near NE Surrey and want to see an older lower mileage car / good spec then let me know, youíd be welcome to look around mine.

Cheers,

Jonathan
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Old 13th January 2018, 02:23 AM   #10
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Everyone who has ever bought one says buy on condition and history but when you go to get one yourself you do what they all actually did and buy the newest one with lowest miles for best price.
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Old 13th January 2018, 07:36 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith View Post
Hello Gaz,

Good question, but ultimately everyone has their own answer. It depends on how long you want to keep the car for, what spec you value, and how willing you are to undertake work and spend additional money on the car over time.

If you are the kind of guy that want a short-term car to enjoy, then you'll likely want a get-in-and-drive car in good nick, which can easily be sold later without spending any money on it, and probably don't care much about miles or spec and the price you buy for and sell later will reflect that.

I take a different attitude. Historically, on all my cars, I value spec and mileage (the latter is king and can never be changed) most highly. Whilst I value condition very much as well (bodywork especially), I am willing to address a bit of of paint on a scuffed bumper, I don't care if wheels are kerbed and tatty, nor if tyres are bald and brakes need doing all around - none of that bothers me - as I can sort and replace all that in time, as long as underneath there is a solid and desirable car. Once I've finished, my cars are immaculate and completely sorted. And because I bought right in the first place, they also have low miles and high spec... Completing the Holy Trinity of condition, mileage and spec.

My preference is as follows:

1. Perfect service history. Goes without saying. This can never be changed as is crucial on ///M cars.

2. Low miles. This can also never be changed, so the lower the better, for me anyway. It's something I value, especially as I cannot influence it later. I do about 8k a year, and would not like to have bought a 65k mile car, knowing after a few years it will be touching 90k. My current car was bought with 27k on it, and I can drive it daily for years, without it even reaching 60k. That pleases me.

3. Spec. This also includes rarity - which is why I now have a Monte Carlo Edition M3. I would advise you to by a Comp Pack at the very least, but you also have Edition models (like mine), Frozen Editions, Performance Editions, LE500s etc etc. Not all optional extras are essential, and we all have different priorities, but I love my music so for me it had to have Harmon Kardon (13 speaker Hifi with DSP) and also had to have the later CIC navigation system with hard-drive music. This is on cars build from mid 2009. The older CCC system is clunky and archaic, and expensive to retrofit. I also had to have heated seats etc. What do you want from your car?

4. Cosmetics / Condition - I obviously want a rock-solid base to start from, so it cannot have anything terminal (like rust or need a complete side painting etc) but a scuffed bumper / skirt is ok, an iffy parking sensor is no problem, a couple of easily removed dents and tatty wheels is fine. I can sort all that. Its knowing what you can sort and what you need to leave alone. This comes with experience and knowing a bodyshop you can trust!

5. Age - Probably last on the list. Definitely wouldn't want an early one (2007, 2008 or early 2009 due to the old computer system as mentioned before) but as long as it had the CIC system, I didn't care whether it was mid 2009 or 2013. as long as the car is in great condition and drives tight, this is of no consequence to me. As the cars all get older, no one cares about the specific year, as long as the history, mileage and condition are desirable. Ask any of the longer term BMW fans on here, it happened with the E46 M3: the year of manufacturer mattered less and less as they got older and all anyone cared about was whether they were facelift or non-facelift, what spec and what mileage.

Hope thats helped a bit. If you have any questions about the E9X M3 model to help you whittle down what you're specifically after, just ask mate.

I follow this pretty much to the ĎTí

I bought a 2008 car as I wanted manual,I couldnít find a high spec manual facelift for my budget (£23-24k) they have dropped a little since though.

I got a 29k car with 7k of options,history full by Bmw and with invoices/original bill of sale option book which the original owner ticked and loads of receipts.so I bought mine paid £22k for it which is prob a bit much but the car was is mint underneath/paint work is immaculate and the mileage low plus a decent spec.

20k gets you something decent now,Iím going to put the cic nav in as itís £800 coded whichbisnt had.was going to lose a good car over that
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Old 13th January 2018, 08:06 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Keith View Post
Hello Gaz,

Good question, but ultimately everyone has their own answer. It depends on how long you want to keep the car for, what spec you value, and how willing you are to undertake work and spend additional money on the car over time.

If you are the kind of guy that want a short-term car to enjoy, then you'll likely want a get-in-and-drive car in good nick, which can easily be sold later without spending any money on it, and probably don't care much about miles or spec and the price you buy for and sell later will reflect that.

I take a different attitude. Historically, on all my cars, I value spec and mileage (the latter is king and can never be changed) most highly. Whilst I value condition very much as well (bodywork especially), I am willing to address a bit of of paint on a scuffed bumper, I don't care if wheels are kerbed and tatty, nor if tyres are bald and brakes need doing all around - none of that bothers me - as I can sort and replace all that in time, as long as underneath there is a solid and desirable car. Once I've finished, my cars are immaculate and completely sorted. And because I bought right in the first place, they also have low miles and high spec... Completing the Holy Trinity of condition, mileage and spec.

My preference is as follows:

1. Perfect service history. Goes without saying. This can never be changed as is crucial on ///M cars.

2. Low miles. This can also never be changed, so the lower the better, for me anyway. It's something I value, especially as I cannot influence it later. I do about 8k a year, and would not like to have bought a 65k mile car, knowing after a few years it will be touching 90k. My current car was bought with 27k on it, and I can drive it daily for years, without it even reaching 60k. That pleases me.

3. Spec. This also includes rarity - which is why I now have a Monte Carlo Edition M3. I would advise you to by a Comp Pack at the very least, but you also have Edition models (like mine), Frozen Editions, Performance Editions, LE500s etc etc. Not all optional extras are essential, and we all have different priorities, but I love my music so for me it had to have Harmon Kardon (13 speaker Hifi with DSP) and also had to have the later CIC navigation system with hard-drive music. This is on cars build from mid 2009. The older CCC system is clunky and archaic, and expensive to retrofit. I also had to have heated seats etc. What do you want from your car?

4. Cosmetics / Condition - I obviously want a rock-solid base to start from, so it cannot have anything terminal (like rust or need a complete side painting etc) but a scuffed bumper / skirt is ok, an iffy parking sensor is no problem, a couple of easily removed dents and tatty wheels is fine. I can sort all that. Its knowing what you can sort and what you need to leave alone. This comes with experience and knowing a bodyshop you can trust!

5. Age - Probably last on the list. Definitely wouldn't want an early one (2007, 2008 or early 2009 due to the old computer system as mentioned before) but as long as it had the CIC system, I didn't care whether it was mid 2009 or 2013. as long as the car is in great condition and drives tight, this is of no consequence to me. As the cars all get older, no one cares about the specific year, as long as the history, mileage and condition are desirable. Ask any of the longer term BMW fans on here, it happened with the E46 M3: the year of manufacturer mattered less and less as they got older and all anyone cared about was whether they were facelift or non-facelift, what spec and what mileage.

Hope thats helped a bit. If you have any questions about the E9X M3 model to help you whittle down what you're specifically after, just ask mate.
Perfect write up, follow this and you won't go wrong. Good luck with the search, just don't jump in to the first one you view.
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Old 13th January 2018, 09:00 AM   #13
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Thanks for that comprehensive write up but it appears my budget of up to 20k puts me in the low mileage good spec pre facelift or higher mileage lower spec facelift. Still undecided which is best.
OK mate, no worries, my post still stands for anyone else in the market and looking for advice!

In your case then, you may not be able to get a comp pack or special edition, but you can still get something that stands out, and make the car feel special.

My last V8 M3 was a standard model, but it was good spec with upgraded hifi, heated seats, but the major plus point was full extended fox-red leather against Alpine White paintwork - this made it stand out, made it striking. When I advertised it on here it sold within a couple days just via an advert on this forum.

So even if you cannot stretch to a mid-2009 car, try and get the highest spec, lowest miles car you can with solid history, ideally with a stand out feature, like extended leather, and ideally HK/Logic 7 or Individual Hifi. It will serve you well over time. As Lee said, if you keep and want to develop the car over time you can always retrofit the CIC nav system (£800-1000) and add LCI LED rear lights (£300-350) later to give you the full LCI experience.


What are you preferred choices of interior / exterior colours? Or if you're not too bothered, what are your no-no colours?

And do you already have an idea in mind of what other things like options you want?

Give us some ideas mate and we can try and offer a few suggestions. You might even have a few people see this and message you about cars they they are looking to move on from that might fit the bill.

Last edited by Keith; 13th January 2018 at 10:05 AM.
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Old 13th January 2018, 09:10 AM   #14
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What year was the face lift?

What were the differences?

What are the optional extras to look out for? Or must haves?
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Old 13th January 2018, 09:56 AM   #15
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What year was the face lift?

What were the differences?

What are the optional extras to look out for? Or must haves?
There was no cosmetic 'facelift' on the E92 M3, the panels are all the same (the E90 Saloon has a different boot lid to accomodate a revised LED light design after mid-2009).

The main difference people look for is the newer nav/music/control interface (called CIC) which came in mid 2009. The coupe then got LED rear lights as standard around March 2010, although these can easily be retrofitted on earlier cars for around £350 brand new. The nav system is trickier to retrofit, and will cost about £1000, using second hand parts, and as wellas the hardware it requires a new leather center console section to accommodate the later style controller.

The main optional extras are as follows. Only you can decide if they're something you want:

- EDC adjustable damping
- DCT / Manual - owners choice but DCT cars are usually worth £1000/1500 more than the equivalent age/spec/miles manual
- Hifi Sound system (10 speakers), Harmon Kardon (13), Individual (13 + more power) are all good, the latter two especially. Base stereo is 6 speakers, no tweeters and very lacklustre
- Extended Leather
- Front PDC (rear is standard)
- Heated Seats
- Adaptive Xenons
- Electric Folding Mirrors
- Electric rear sunblind (trick bit of kit but pretty pointless!)
- High Gloss Shadowline trim on windows and mirrors (base spec cars have a matt finish)
- Privacy glass (looks great and aftermarket tints never look as good)
- Split folding armrest (bit pointless)

The only real must-haves for me are EDC, upgraded stereo, heated leather and privacy glass. The rest are just nice to have.

Last edited by Keith; 13th January 2018 at 10:00 AM.
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Old 13th January 2018, 10:26 AM   #16
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Sorry yes, lci not facelift.

I have my eyes on a frozen silver edition... comes with all the kit as standard
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Old 13th January 2018, 10:33 AM   #17
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Sorry yes, lci not facelift.

I have my eyes on a frozen silver edition... comes with all the kit as standard
Good choice!
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Old 13th January 2018, 10:41 AM   #18
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Good choice!
Let's hope so!

In for a penny, in for a pound, and all that!
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Old 13th January 2018, 01:42 PM   #19
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Thanks for that comprehensive write up but it appears my budget of up to 20k puts me in the low mileage good spec pre facelift or higher mileage lower spec facelift. Still undecided which is best.
I've just trawled Autotrader (bored at work) and how about this. Easily the best car I can find for the money:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif...01801032422051

Only 34k miles (very attractive), FBMWSH, Supplied AUC (BMW approved Used) 10 months ago so will likely be clean and looks it in the pics, pretty loaded with DCT, EDC, later CIC Nav, Hifi Stereo System, Alpine White on black nappa.

58 plate but has CIC, which you don't usually see until 59 plate. Maybe it was an early demo car (?) or was retrofitted by a previous owner? Either way it has it and thats huge bonus.

I'd be going for a look.

Last edited by Keith; 13th January 2018 at 01:45 PM.
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Old 13th January 2018, 02:37 PM   #20
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Thanks for looking but this is my preferance manual black leather colour choice blue red grey silver black in that order no white. I am looking at these 2 at the moment.


http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classifi...?atmobcid=soc3


http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classifi...?atmobcid=soc3

The first one is only 9 miles from me.
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