The M3cutters - UK BMW M3 Group Forum
 

Go Back   The M3cutters - UK BMW M3 Group Forum > M3cutters Garage > General maintenance, upgrades and modifications



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 9th June 2017, 09:35 PM   #1
JamieDJA
Achieved official socks
 
JamieDJA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Kent
Posts: 2,157
Car: 2008 E92 330d M Sport Coupe Individual + E36 328 Track Weapon
Colour Combo: Atlantis Blue / Black Dakota
Default 18" 9J TD Pro Race 1.2's + E36 Coupe - Help Please

Sold the wheels in the end, will stick with the trusty evo alloys for now. On the hunt for a set of 17x9 TD in black instead.

Last edited by JamieDJA; 3rd July 2017 at 05:33 PM.
JamieDJA is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 9th June 2017, 11:14 PM   #2
Pdelamare
Achieved official socks
 
Pdelamare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Milton Keynes
Posts: 1,410
Car: E92 M3, Mercedes E63 5.5, Caterham Levante, Smart Prime
Default

If it's just catching then use a 3mm spacer?
Pdelamare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th June 2017, 05:23 AM   #3
JamieDJA
Achieved official socks
 
JamieDJA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Kent
Posts: 2,157
Car: 2008 E92 330d M Sport Coupe Individual + E36 328 Track Weapon
Colour Combo: Atlantis Blue / Black Dakota
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pdelamare View Post
If it's just catching then use a 3mm spacer?
Would that be enough to run a 3-5mm spacer? Assume oem bolts would fit with them?
JamieDJA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th June 2017, 08:49 AM   #4
Robsy
Wearing official robes
 
Robsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Manningtree
Posts: 358
Car: E46 M3
Default

As said run a spacer, be worth upgrading from bolts to a stud kit also. Makes changing wheels so much easier and be able to run spacers without extended bolts.
Robsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th June 2017, 03:05 PM   #5
JamieDJA
Achieved official socks
 
JamieDJA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Kent
Posts: 2,157
Car: 2008 E92 330d M Sport Coupe Individual + E36 328 Track Weapon
Colour Combo: Atlantis Blue / Black Dakota
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robsy View Post
As said run a spacer, be worth upgrading from bolts to a stud kit also. Makes changing wheels so much easier and be able to run spacers without extended bolts.
I had considered that actually, conversion to studs. Might be easier!

I'm going to order some 5mm hubscentric.

Anyone know if oem bolts are ok still?
JamieDJA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th June 2017, 09:32 PM   #6
harrypevo
Wearing official robes
 
harrypevo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 360
Car: E30 m3, e36 m3, mk2 gti
Default

If you can get away with 3mm then you might be ok with standard bolts depending on the mounting thickness of the wheels. I certainly wouldn't run 5mm on oe wheels with standard bolts.

You need the minimum you can get away with, you only need a couple of mm clearance at the top, any spacers are going to run you into trouble with the arches.

I run a 20mm spacer to get my 8.5in wheels to clear my coilovers, and have to run quite a lot of negative camber to keep standard arches and liners.

It would be very easy to bin the liners and trim the lips, but it's just not practical on an everyday car. I have considered getting the lower mounting points for the coil over on the hub milled slightly. This would reduce negative camber and make the damper lean onwards, away from the top of the wheel and allow a slimmer spacer. You'd then have to use the topmounts to tilt the whole wheel and strut assembly to get the negative camber back where you want it.

I've not really looked into how much you would have to remove or where the pivot points are, would be nice if say 2mm off would give 5mm more at the top of the wheel, would then be easy to put a 2mm spacer back between damper and hub if going back to standard.
harrypevo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2017, 10:35 AM   #7
Mitch2.0
Achieved official socks
 
Mitch2.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Carshalton Beeches, Surrey.
Posts: 3,970
Car: E46 M3
Colour Combo: A mixture of brake dust, rubber pickup and dirt!
Default

Jamie, a 3mm spacer with standard bolts will be fine, if you want I've got a whole bag full to the brim of extended bolts of all different lengths, you can pick out a load if you like pal.

I personally don't like 5mm spacers, they don't leave enough flange exposed, if only ever use 3mm and then jump straight to 10mm.
Mitch2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th June 2017, 03:04 PM   #8
Daleed30
Wearing official underwear
 
Daleed30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Newton Aycliffe
Posts: 221
Car: Track spec E46 M3 - E90 330d manual - 1 series
Colour Combo: Silver Grey
Default

I'd buy the wheels from you if you would consider
Daleed30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th June 2017, 04:02 PM   #9
SmokeyBear
Wearing official robes
 
SmokeyBear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 314
Car: E39 530d, e46 M3 SMG, e36 vert s54, e34 520i
Default

The other thing you could do if you have adjustable camber plates is put washers behind the coilover mounting point (upper where there are two bolts). This would change the angle of the shock and maybe give you enough room and the you wouldn't have to run the slip on spacers which make it much harder to fit the wheels because the lip on the hub is reduced.

You could adjust the camber back to correct then by using the adjustable top. You may need longer hi tensile bolts depending on how many washers you need to space out the shock.

I know lots of the low budget drifters use that method to adjust their camber.
SmokeyBear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th June 2017, 09:40 AM   #10
Mitch2.0
Achieved official socks
 
Mitch2.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Carshalton Beeches, Surrey.
Posts: 3,970
Car: E46 M3
Colour Combo: A mixture of brake dust, rubber pickup and dirt!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyBear View Post
The other thing you could do if you have adjustable camber plates is put washers behind the coilover mounting point (upper where there are two bolts). This would change the angle of the shock and maybe give you enough room and the you wouldn't have to run the slip on spacers which make it much harder to fit the wheels because the lip on the hub is reduced.

You could adjust the camber back to correct then by using the adjustable top. You may need longer hi tensile bolts depending on how many washers you need to space out the shock.

I know lots of the low budget drifters use that method to adjust their camber.
On the e36 the two lower bolts are the only ones where you can add washers to shim up the camber, however you can only add camber this way, not reduce it. Adding camber this way moves the top of the wheel closer to the shock, and would therefore increase the issue Jamie is having, not reduce it.
Mitch2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th June 2017, 09:57 AM   #11
Tris
Achieved official socks
 
Tris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,265
Car: E46 M3 and an e36 M3 Evo track car
Default

Are you sure these are 18x9? With a 225 tyre?

In my experience, in order to get an 18x9 to clear the front coilover properly (3-5mm gap) you need 18x9 et23 which means that you would need a 15mm spacer at least.

A quick calculation shows that an 18x8 et38 would sit 2.3mm closer to the strut than a 18x9 et23 which would make a lot more sense looking at the clearance you have so I am not convinced those wheels are 9" wide or you would have massive issues even getting the wheel bolts to do up never mind turn the wheel....

Last edited by Tris; 20th June 2017 at 10:48 AM.
Tris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th June 2017, 10:58 AM   #12
SmokeyBear
Wearing official robes
 
SmokeyBear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 314
Car: E39 530d, e46 M3 SMG, e36 vert s54, e34 520i
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch2.0 View Post
On the e36 the two lower bolts are the only ones where you can add washers to shim up the camber, however you can only add camber this way, not reduce it. Adding camber this way moves the top of the wheel closer to the shock, and would therefore increase the issue Jamie is having, not reduce it.
My bad I thought the bolts were above the pivot!
SmokeyBear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th June 2017, 03:15 PM   #13
Mitch2.0
Achieved official socks
 
Mitch2.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Carshalton Beeches, Surrey.
Posts: 3,970
Car: E46 M3
Colour Combo: A mixture of brake dust, rubber pickup and dirt!
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tris View Post
Are you sure these are 18x9? With a 225 tyre?

In my experience, in order to get an 18x9 to clear the front coilover properly (3-5mm gap) you need 18x9 et23 which means that you would need a 15mm spacer at least.

A quick calculation shows that an 18x8 et38 would sit 2.3mm closer to the strut than a 18x9 et23 which would make a lot more sense looking at the clearance you have so I am not convinced those wheels are 9" wide or you would have massive issues even getting the wheel bolts to do up never mind turn the wheel....
Agreed, 9J TD's have a lip, these look like 8Js to me; plus the 225's fit well, they would have more of a stretch on a 9J, could be wrong though.
Mitch2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd June 2017, 01:00 PM   #14
JamieDJA
Achieved official socks
 
JamieDJA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Kent
Posts: 2,157
Car: 2008 E92 330d M Sport Coupe Individual + E36 328 Track Weapon
Colour Combo: Atlantis Blue / Black Dakota
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by harrypevo View Post
If you can get away with 3mm then you might be ok with standard bolts depending on the mounting thickness of the wheels. I certainly wouldn't run 5mm on oe wheels with standard bolts.

You need the minimum you can get away with, you only need a couple of mm clearance at the top, any spacers are going to run you into trouble with the arches.

I run a 20mm spacer to get my 8.5in wheels to clear my coilovers, and have to run quite a lot of negative camber to keep standard arches and liners.

It would be very easy to bin the liners and trim the lips, but it's just not practical on an everyday car. I have considered getting the lower mounting points for the coil over on the hub milled slightly. This would reduce negative camber and make the damper lean onwards, away from the top of the wheel and allow a slimmer spacer. You'd then have to use the topmounts to tilt the whole wheel and strut assembly to get the negative camber back where you want it.

I've not really looked into how much you would have to remove or where the pivot points are, would be nice if say 2mm off would give 5mm more at the top of the wheel, would then be easy to put a 2mm spacer back between damper and hub if going back to standard.
Wow that's a huge spacer, not sure they would be so flush on the wheel arches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch2.0 View Post
Jamie, a 3mm spacer with standard bolts will be fine, if you want I've got a whole bag full to the brim of extended bolts of all different lengths, you can pick out a load if you like pal.

I personally don't like 5mm spacers, they don't leave enough flange exposed, if only ever use 3mm and then jump straight to 10mm.
Cheers mate, that's cool, I'll check the clearance on how much meat there is left when I test fit as haven't touched it since brands hatch. As you say if these don't fit I'll look to try 10mm and above, its running 2.25 degrees of camber at the front so a decent amount really the 17" are quite tucked in at the top.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daleed30 View Post
I'd buy the wheels from you if you would consider
I would consider it, pm'd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch2.0 View Post
On the e36 the two lower bolts are the only ones where you can add washers to shim up the camber, however you can only add camber this way, not reduce it. Adding camber this way moves the top of the wheel closer to the shock, and would therefore increase the issue Jamie is having, not reduce it.
Yeah definitely don't want to increase the issue
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tris View Post
Are you sure these are 18x9? With a 225 tyre?

In my experience, in order to get an 18x9 to clear the front coilover properly (3-5mm gap) you need 18x9 et23 which means that you would need a 15mm spacer at least.

A quick calculation shows that an 18x8 et38 would sit 2.3mm closer to the strut than a 18x9 et23 which would make a lot more sense looking at the clearance you have so I am not convinced those wheels are 9" wide or you would have massive issues even getting the wheel bolts to do up never mind turn the wheel....
Their 100% 18X9J, ET38. 18X9 is stamped on all four wheels? Looking at the wheels there very wide and there is a stretch on the 225 tyre

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch2.0 View Post
Agreed, 9J TD's have a lip, these look like 8Js to me; plus the 225's fit well, they would have more of a stretch on a 9J, could be wrong though.
Defo 9J mate, well according to the stamps on all four, the stretch on the tyre is there when looking down, there certainly very wide just don't appear it in the photos
JamieDJA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd June 2017, 01:40 PM   #15
Tris
Achieved official socks
 
Tris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,265
Car: E46 M3 and an e36 M3 Evo track car
Default

You may find that your offset is different front to rear then. ET38 should be way off fitting on the front. As I said, I had the same wheels with et23 and had a very small gap between the inside of the rim and the coilover....

All this is irrelevant really though because if they fit with a 3mm spacer, happy days!
Tris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd June 2017, 07:21 PM   #16
JamieDJA
Achieved official socks
 
JamieDJA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Kent
Posts: 2,157
Car: 2008 E92 330d M Sport Coupe Individual + E36 328 Track Weapon
Colour Combo: Atlantis Blue / Black Dakota
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tris View Post
You may find that your offset is different front to rear then. ET38 should be way off fitting on the front. As I said, I had the same wheels with et23 and had a very small gap between the inside of the rim and the coilover....

All this is irrelevant really though because if they fit with a 3mm spacer, happy days!

Hmmm to be honest I don't know a massive amount about offsets, the chap I bought them off got them new, and owns a race car E36, no expense spared and had multiple sets of these with zzr's on. The specs he gave me are ET38 offset, there was pics of these on his car and footage but he was running custom made coilovers all round.

I will hopefully get time to test fit these this week on my days off, if they don't fit I'll think twice and maybe sell them and wait for a 17x9 set to come up or stick with oem BMW alloys as was after another set of sunflowers.
JamieDJA is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes



All times are GMT. The time now is 04:42 PM.


This website uses cookies. By continuing to use the site you are agreeing to our use of cookies. To find out more about the cookies this website uses, click here.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2007 - 2014 M3cutters. All Rights Reserved.