Updated Dyno day at Surrey RR - Page 6 - The M3cutters

jatinder · 18th June 2017, 08:50 AM

The Maf has been replaced and the car seems a lot better but I need to go on another drive to see how it is but on first impressions all of the flat spots have gone. But I'll be going to the dyno again after my inspection 2 as there is no point doing it again before hand. To also point out I don't drive the car much and this "hand brake on" symptom as only been present the last two times I have taken the car out the second being when on the way to the dyno!

JosephB · 18th June 2017, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulclaude

Looks like you have just reset your adaptations there, correct? If not, it looks like lambda adaptations are disabled in the tune, unless things are running absolutely spot on, which is unlikely. All your trims are sitting at 1.0 which means no adaptive corrections are being applied to your fueling.

Regarding data logging - INPA isn't the best for this, especially during WOT pulls such on a dyno. You ideally need data logging software, BMWlogger or Testo(free) both work well.

Thanks, I'll take a look at those

The adaptions were reset about 800 miles ago. I'll ask evolve about their tune.

paulclaude · 18th June 2017, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DuncS3

this is the issue with going on the dyno - if your results are off then you end up spending some cash! The fuelling aspect is the most important piece and as Paul says (he really knows what he is talking about) if running lean and it's not an obvious air leak, then you need to look at the fuel delivery system.

For those with really low figures you might also consider checking Vanos operation - since this is a potential 'common fault' - you can do this yourself with DIS as there is a test routine in ther.

Cheers Duncan! And yes, healthy Vanos operation is one of the key factors to S54 engine performance - it can affect power output significantly if there is an issue, so a routine test via DIS/GT1 is never a bad idea.

Having tuned Duncan's M3 remotely on the Surrey RR, i'd say it's a good choice for an accurate readout. It's very similar in behavior and figures to the DD dyno I use up here in Scotland @ SOS Motorsport.

JosephB · 18th June 2017, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DuncS3

this is the issue with going on the dyno - if your results are off then you end up spending some cash! The fuelling aspect is the most important piece and as Paul says (he really knows what he is talking about) if running lean and it's not an obvious air leak, then you need to look at the fuel delivery system.

For those with really low figures you might also consider checking Vanos operation - since this is a potential 'common fault' - you can do this yourself with DIS as there is a test routine in ther.

Wasn't questioning Paul. Was just asking questions to better understand as I like to learn as much as possible and try to figure it out/make sense of it all myself as best I can. To be fair 320bhp from mine isn't bad at all considering its lean. Its not too lean though. I did have a crack in the MAF housing on the Eventuri when it went on the rollers but I couldn't find a leak with a very basic home made leak test (Washing up liquid and water method). Also checked other parts of the inlet too. At least trying to find a leak on a N/A car is way simpler than when I tried to find one on a complex twin turbo Subaru!

Not worried about spending some cash, I aim to track this car quite a bit so want to be sure it's going to be reliable. But at the same time want to spend that cash in the right areas.

Good shout on the Vanos, no history of mine ever being done (Car's on 154K) but it sounds healthy. I have DIS so will run some tests.

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulclaude

Cheers Duncan! And yes, healthy Vanos operation is one of the key factors to S54 engine performance - it can affect power output significantly if there is an issue, so a routine test via DIS/GT1 is never a bad idea.

Having tuned Duncan's M3 remotely on the Surrey RR, i'd say it's a good choice for an accurate readout. It's very similar in behavior and figures to the DD dyno I use up here in Scotland @ SOS Motorsport.

Thanks Paul, I appreciate the pointers and advice. Please don't take my questions the wrong way, I'm not questioning your knowledge, just questioning generally to better understand

Its interesting that my figures were static on the adaptions. I'll drop Evolve a message and see if that's what they'd expect when running their map.

I've used Surrey for years, back from my Legacy days 10 years or so ago when he was in his old place and have taken almost every car I've owned to him! I know and trust his RR. Not interested in the end figures, only the fact the car is running correctly. Had the fueling been spot on at 320bhp I'd have been well chuffed.

paulclaude · 19th June 2017, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JosephB

Wasn't questioning Paul. Was just asking questions to better understand as I like to learn as much as possible and try to figure it out/make sense of it all myself as best I can. To be fair 320bhp from mine isn't bad at all considering its lean. Its not too lean though. I did have a crack in the MAF housing on the Eventuri when it went on the rollers but I couldn't find a leak with a very basic home made leak test (Washing up liquid and water method). Also checked other parts of the inlet too. At least trying to find a leak on a N/A car is way simpler than when I tried to find one on a complex twin turbo Subaru!

Not worried about spending some cash, I aim to track this car quite a bit so want to be sure it's going to be reliable. But at the same time want to spend that cash in the right areas.

Good shout on the Vanos, no history of mine ever being done (Car's on 154K) but it sounds healthy. I have DIS so will run some tests.

Thanks Paul, I appreciate the pointers and advice. Please don't take my questions the wrong way, I'm not questioning your knowledge, just questioning generally to better understand

Its interesting that my figures were static on the adaptions. I'll drop Evolve a message and see if that's what they'd expect when running their map.

I've used Surrey for years, back from my Legacy days 10 years or so ago when he was in his old place and have taken almost every car I've owned to him! I know and trust his RR. Not interested in the end figures, only the fact the car is running correctly. Had the fueling been spot on at 320bhp I'd have been well chuffed.

I don't think Duncan was getting at you mate, just a passing comment

If you are tracking the car, then i'd advise getting your AFR's in check at least. Running in the 13's might give you a good figure for a pull or two, but with sustained high RPM and heat on track it will only lead to knock, timing pull and power reduction. That being said, 320HP is a decent figure, at least for a stock car w/tune. As a comparison, my track M3 made 315HP bone stock on the SOS DD Dyno (same setup as surrey RR). I remapped it myself, bringing it it up to 328HP. It's now running CSL intake, Schrick 288/280 cams along with some other mods and last visit at SOS was 363HP following tuning.

Regarding the fuel adaptations - it's not uncommon for some tuners to completely disable them. Usually the reasoning behind it is to prevent your lambda adaptations affecting WOT fuel - although in this case it looks to need some adjustment and/or a fuel system check over.

JosephB · 19th June 2017, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulclaude

I don't think Duncan was getting at you mate, just a passing comment

If you are tracking the car, then i'd advise getting your AFR's in check at least. Running in the 13's might give you a good figure for a pull or two, but with sustained high RPM and heat on track it will only lead to knock, timing pull and power reduction. That being said, 320HP is a decent figure, at least for a stock car w/tune. As a comparison, my track M3 made 315HP bone stock on the SOS DD Dyno (same setup as surrey RR). I remapped it myself, bringing it it up to 328HP. It's now running CSL intake, Schrick 288/280 cams along with some other mods and last visit at SOS was 363HP following tuning.

Regarding the fuel adaptations - it's not uncommon for some tuners to completely disable them. Usually the reasoning behind it is to prevent your lambda adaptations affecting WOT fuel - although in this case it looks to need some adjustment and/or a fuel system check over.

Thanks again

Some brilliant info to get me started.

18th June 2017, 08:50 AM	#101
jatinder On the path Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 68 Car: 05 E46 M3 Colour Combo: Velvet Blue Individual	The Maf has been replaced and the car seems a lot better but I need to go on another drive to see how it is but on first impressions all of the flat spots have gone. But I'll be going to the dyno again after my inspection 2 as there is no point doing it again before hand. To also point out I don't drive the car much and this "hand brake on" symptom as only been present the last two times I have taken the car out the second being when on the way to the dyno! Last edited by jatinder; 18th June 2017 at 08:53 AM.

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18th June 2017, 09:07 AM	#102
JosephB Rocking a new hat Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Gloucestershire Posts: 467 Car: E46 M3	Quote: Originally Posted by paulclaude Looks like you have just reset your adaptations there, correct? If not, it looks like lambda adaptations are disabled in the tune, unless things are running absolutely spot on, which is unlikely. All your trims are sitting at 1.0 which means no adaptive corrections are being applied to your fueling. Regarding data logging - INPA isn't the best for this, especially during WOT pulls such on a dyno. You ideally need data logging software, BMWlogger or Testo(free) both work well. Thanks, I'll take a look at those The adaptions were reset about 800 miles ago. I'll ask evolve about their tune.

18th June 2017, 09:23 AM	#103
paulclaude Achieved official socks Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Glasgow / Stornoway Posts: 1,051 Car: 2005 E46 M3 Manual 'Track' / 2004 E46 M3 SMG 'Road' Colour Combo: Silver Grey / Titan Silver	Quote: Originally Posted by DuncS3 this is the issue with going on the dyno - if your results are off then you end up spending some cash! The fuelling aspect is the most important piece and as Paul says (he really knows what he is talking about) if running lean and it's not an obvious air leak, then you need to look at the fuel delivery system. For those with really low figures you might also consider checking Vanos operation - since this is a potential 'common fault' - you can do this yourself with DIS as there is a test routine in ther. Cheers Duncan! And yes, healthy Vanos operation is one of the key factors to S54 engine performance - it can affect power output significantly if there is an issue, so a routine test via DIS/GT1 is never a bad idea. Having tuned Duncan's M3 remotely on the Surrey RR, i'd say it's a good choice for an accurate readout. It's very similar in behavior and figures to the DD dyno I use up here in Scotland @ SOS Motorsport.

18th June 2017, 10:52 PM	#104
JosephB Rocking a new hat Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Gloucestershire Posts: 467 Car: E46 M3	Quote: Originally Posted by DuncS3 this is the issue with going on the dyno - if your results are off then you end up spending some cash! The fuelling aspect is the most important piece and as Paul says (he really knows what he is talking about) if running lean and it's not an obvious air leak, then you need to look at the fuel delivery system. For those with really low figures you might also consider checking Vanos operation - since this is a potential 'common fault' - you can do this yourself with DIS as there is a test routine in ther. Wasn't questioning Paul. Was just asking questions to better understand as I like to learn as much as possible and try to figure it out/make sense of it all myself as best I can. To be fair 320bhp from mine isn't bad at all considering its lean. Its not too lean though. I did have a crack in the MAF housing on the Eventuri when it went on the rollers but I couldn't find a leak with a very basic home made leak test (Washing up liquid and water method). Also checked other parts of the inlet too. At least trying to find a leak on a N/A car is way simpler than when I tried to find one on a complex twin turbo Subaru! Not worried about spending some cash, I aim to track this car quite a bit so want to be sure it's going to be reliable. But at the same time want to spend that cash in the right areas. Good shout on the Vanos, no history of mine ever being done (Car's on 154K) but it sounds healthy. I have DIS so will run some tests. Quote: Originally Posted by paulclaude Cheers Duncan! And yes, healthy Vanos operation is one of the key factors to S54 engine performance - it can affect power output significantly if there is an issue, so a routine test via DIS/GT1 is never a bad idea. Having tuned Duncan's M3 remotely on the Surrey RR, i'd say it's a good choice for an accurate readout. It's very similar in behavior and figures to the DD dyno I use up here in Scotland @ SOS Motorsport. Thanks Paul, I appreciate the pointers and advice. Please don't take my questions the wrong way, I'm not questioning your knowledge, just questioning generally to better understand Its interesting that my figures were static on the adaptions. I'll drop Evolve a message and see if that's what they'd expect when running their map. I've used Surrey for years, back from my Legacy days 10 years or so ago when he was in his old place and have taken almost every car I've owned to him! I know and trust his RR. Not interested in the end figures, only the fact the car is running correctly. Had the fueling been spot on at 320bhp I'd have been well chuffed.

19th June 2017, 08:45 AM	#105
paulclaude Achieved official socks Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Glasgow / Stornoway Posts: 1,051 Car: 2005 E46 M3 Manual 'Track' / 2004 E46 M3 SMG 'Road' Colour Combo: Silver Grey / Titan Silver	Quote: Originally Posted by JosephB Wasn't questioning Paul. Was just asking questions to better understand as I like to learn as much as possible and try to figure it out/make sense of it all myself as best I can. To be fair 320bhp from mine isn't bad at all considering its lean. Its not too lean though. I did have a crack in the MAF housing on the Eventuri when it went on the rollers but I couldn't find a leak with a very basic home made leak test (Washing up liquid and water method). Also checked other parts of the inlet too. At least trying to find a leak on a N/A car is way simpler than when I tried to find one on a complex twin turbo Subaru! Not worried about spending some cash, I aim to track this car quite a bit so want to be sure it's going to be reliable. But at the same time want to spend that cash in the right areas. Good shout on the Vanos, no history of mine ever being done (Car's on 154K) but it sounds healthy. I have DIS so will run some tests. Thanks Paul, I appreciate the pointers and advice. Please don't take my questions the wrong way, I'm not questioning your knowledge, just questioning generally to better understand Its interesting that my figures were static on the adaptions. I'll drop Evolve a message and see if that's what they'd expect when running their map. I've used Surrey for years, back from my Legacy days 10 years or so ago when he was in his old place and have taken almost every car I've owned to him! I know and trust his RR. Not interested in the end figures, only the fact the car is running correctly. Had the fueling been spot on at 320bhp I'd have been well chuffed. I don't think Duncan was getting at you mate, just a passing comment If you are tracking the car, then i'd advise getting your AFR's in check at least. Running in the 13's might give you a good figure for a pull or two, but with sustained high RPM and heat on track it will only lead to knock, timing pull and power reduction. That being said, 320HP is a decent figure, at least for a stock car w/tune. As a comparison, my track M3 made 315HP bone stock on the SOS DD Dyno (same setup as surrey RR). I remapped it myself, bringing it it up to 328HP. It's now running CSL intake, Schrick 288/280 cams along with some other mods and last visit at SOS was 363HP following tuning. Regarding the fuel adaptations - it's not uncommon for some tuners to completely disable them. Usually the reasoning behind it is to prevent your lambda adaptations affecting WOT fuel - although in this case it looks to need some adjustment and/or a fuel system check over.

19th June 2017, 06:03 PM	#106
JosephB Rocking a new hat Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Gloucestershire Posts: 467 Car: E46 M3	Quote: Originally Posted by paulclaude I don't think Duncan was getting at you mate, just a passing comment If you are tracking the car, then i'd advise getting your AFR's in check at least. Running in the 13's might give you a good figure for a pull or two, but with sustained high RPM and heat on track it will only lead to knock, timing pull and power reduction. That being said, 320HP is a decent figure, at least for a stock car w/tune. As a comparison, my track M3 made 315HP bone stock on the SOS DD Dyno (same setup as surrey RR). I remapped it myself, bringing it it up to 328HP. It's now running CSL intake, Schrick 288/280 cams along with some other mods and last visit at SOS was 363HP following tuning. Regarding the fuel adaptations - it's not uncommon for some tuners to completely disable them. Usually the reasoning behind it is to prevent your lambda adaptations affecting WOT fuel - although in this case it looks to need some adjustment and/or a fuel system check over. Thanks again Some brilliant info to get me started.

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