The M3cutters - UK BMW M3 Group Forum
 

Go Back   The M3cutters - UK BMW M3 Group Forum > M3 and M4 Talk > F80 M3 Saloon / F82 M4 Coupe / F83 M4 Convertible



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 9th December 2017, 04:50 PM   #41
lindorez
Wearing official underwear
 
lindorez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 261
Car: BMW F82 M4 ZCP
Default

Thanks for those with helpful comments. For those that go on about the winter conditions or driving style the comments are irrelevant.

I just happened to post this in December but it has done it in the summer months with high temperatures and my MPSS properly warmed. It's not tyres, grip or me pushing the car.

Its a random occurrence where one of the back wheels seems to feel like it's temporarily locked up and unsettles the rear. Its not a drift it feels different.

I don't mash the accelerator or drive out with the conditions. This happens on a regular commute in my daily driver at sensible speeds. It's completely random and I cannot recreate it... It just sometimes happens.

I'm experienced in driving rwd powerful cars, it's not my lack of ability. It's also happened once with my father driving who is a experienced driving instructor and drives like miss daisy.

I'm thinking try get a software update is the next best bet. I'll probably have to pay for this though as it's difficult to get a warranty claim when you can't show the issue.
lindorez is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 9th December 2017, 05:36 PM   #42
ScottBacon
Achieved official socks
 
ScottBacon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 10,554
Car: 2017 F82 M4 CP
Colour Combo: Silverstone II
Default

Yes mate there’s some really stupid comments

I think to pay for a software update is a decent course of action. As you say, it is nigh on impossible to replicate on an accompanied ‘test drive’. Good luck with it
ScottBacon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2017, 10:37 PM   #43
M4S55
A mere Chipper
 
M4S55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 46
Car: M4 Boring White
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by E46CoupeM3 View Post
Just because you can't drive it doesn't mean it can't be driven

Get yourself some skid pan time.



Also it's not getting old that makes you stop liking sideways.

It's stopping liking sideways that makes you old.

I have been racing for Jaguar for years, iv had more seat time than you have eaten hot dinners. Regardless rwd doesnt work anymore. Far too much power for single axle drivetrain. Back in the day they were great but thats because they had no excessive power back then and were far more poised.

And rear wheel biased 4wd will have its tail out just as much as a rwd but with the ability to tame excess power and they grip.

A good example is the GT-R, although iv owned a few and they arent to my taste due to build quality etc, they are Rear Wheel biased awd, and funnily enough hold some of the best times on the Ring everytime they are tested. On the other hand rwd M3, M5 etc etc etc have been completely embarrassed by fwd Civics, Leons, Golfs etc. So id say no amount of "Skid Pan" time is going to make a rwd any better, it needs more wheels powering it, simple as that which is why bmw have decided to make all the new M range awd to keep up with hatchbacks and other toy cars that have made them look silly for the last 10 years.
M4S55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2017, 10:58 PM   #44
E46CoupeM3
Achieved official socks
 
E46CoupeM3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: England
Posts: 12,979
Car: 2001 BMW M3
Colour Combo: Carbon Black
Default

AWD may well be better in some situations. Too much power to the front slides the front wide, never pulls it in. Above a certain point what you add to forward traction you have to take from cornering force making power to the front, especially with FWD, more of a compromise as that end of the chassis has to do 2 things.

Maybe AWD is a better compromise, especially if smart.


However, you will agree that the fastest way for most drivers to get their car around the ring whether it be AWD, FWD or RWD will be with another person doing the driving. Even if they are good someone that drives that track all day everyday will probably be quicker, at least in that one, situation.

But where is the fun in being a passenger for that or any other aspect of life. Which leads us to the fun of it. For that you can't beat RWD.

Anything that moves the slidey fun stuff further up the speed range deprives the inexperienced time to learn when it happens and the experienced potentially of life, because if you go hard enough for long enough you will peel one off. Maybe M3s are already above that speed level.

However, if you put the car in a forward gear and it moves forward it's working. RWD works
E46CoupeM3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2017, 11:27 PM   #45
M4S55
A mere Chipper
 
M4S55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 46
Car: M4 Boring White
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by E46CoupeM3 View Post
AWD may well be better in some situations. Too much power to the front slides the front wide, never pulls it in. Above a certain point what you add to forward traction you have to take from cornering force making power to the front, especially with FWD, more of a compromise as that end of the chassis has to do 2 things.

Maybe AWD is a better compromise, especially if smart.


However, you will agree that the fastest way for most drivers to get their car around the ring whether it be AWD, FWD or RWD will be with another person doing the driving. Even if they are good someone that drives that track all day everyday will probably be quicker, at least in that one, situation.

But where is the fun in being a passenger for that or any other aspect of life. Which leads us to the fun of it. For that you can't beat RWD.

Anything that moves the slidey fun stuff further up the speed range deprives the inexperienced time to learn when it happens and the experienced potentially of life, because if you go hard enough for long enough you will peel one off. Maybe M3s are already above that speed level.

However, if you put the car in a forward gear and it moves forward it's working. RWD works

Its a figure of speach. It doesnt work when a Fwd drive car schools a rwd car round a track driven by a professional driver capable of driving both fwd and rwd as well as each othere. These are professional drivers owned by thier manufactures that live at the ring so to speak.

So yes it moves a car, no it doesnt do it well, and fun, im not sure, grio is fun, G Force is fun, spinning in a straigjt line trying to feel why you spent so much money on a fast car but failing is not fun, neither is pushing a car on a backboard that you can hammer a work van around and finding yourself in a bush. Lol. Rwd is a big fail with the power we see from them now. A Smart awd is the only way to go and with Bmw, Mercedes etc etc going that wayi think they agree with me. The new awd M5 is the fastest bmw they have ever made in all aspects apparently, i wonder why........
M4S55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2017, 10:11 AM   #46
MaximumBob
Achieved official socks
 
MaximumBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,563
Car: 2017 M4 CP
Default

ISTM that the E92 M3 was the power limit for a front engined RWD M car...enough that you could slide it about for fun if required but not too much that it felt like it wanted to show you what an M3 shaped hole in a hedge would look like.
The F8x M3 though has just too much power over grip on roads that aren't warm and dry.
I can't see how the next version with inevitably even more power could be drivable without 4WD.
MaximumBob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2017, 10:40 AM   #47
caterham7
Wearing official robes
 
caterham7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 321
Car: 2016 m4
Default

I guess the AMG GT-R or the corvette Zr1, or the viper ACR, or the lexus LFA (or any other number of fast front engined RWD cars) didnt get the email telling them they have too much power for a front engined RWD car, and are undriveable, and as a result slow round a track.

The m3/4 isnt relatively slow round the nurburgring because its RWD, its slow because its not been optimised (most notably by not using 'track day' tyres) to be fast round the nurburgring .

anyway - here's an article that discusses a similar thing, ie whats the max power for a front engined RWD car before you start to get diminishing returns?

http://oppositelock.kinja.com/whats-...car-1690810920

I think track lap times are nearly irrelevant for road cars, I'm more interested in a trade off between fun and out right speed, Obviously everyone is different,and has a different definition of fun, but for me the current m4 strikes a nice balance between the two.
caterham7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2017, 10:52 AM   #48
fireblade1
Achieved official socks
 
fireblade1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 5,885
Car: BMW M4
Colour Combo: MW/Full SO
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M4S55 View Post
I have been racing for Jaguar for years, iv had more seat time than you have eaten hot dinners..
Is there any need
fireblade1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2017, 11:47 AM   #49
E46CoupeM3
Achieved official socks
 
E46CoupeM3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: England
Posts: 12,979
Car: 2001 BMW M3
Colour Combo: Carbon Black
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M4S55 View Post
It's a figure of speech.
No, it isn't
Quote:
Originally Posted by M4S55 View Post
It doesn't work when a Fwd drive car schools a rwd car round a track driven by a professional driver capable of driving both fwd and rwd as well as each other.
I'm reasonably sure an M4 will school an 850 mini around most tracks, so which FWD, what spec?

If you are going from a sweeping generalisation that isn't supportable to a measurable situation you need to be specific.




As an aside.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by fireblade1 View Post
Is there any need
I seriously bet I've had more seat time in front of food, eating is a natural talent of mine

Last edited by E46CoupeM3; 10th December 2017 at 11:52 AM.
E46CoupeM3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2017, 03:29 PM   #50
antych
Achieved official socks
 
antych's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: London
Posts: 698
Car: 2017 BMW M4 CP
Colour Combo: Sakhir Orange / Black
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M4S55 View Post
I have been racing for Jaguar for years, iv had more seat time than you have eaten hot dinners. Regardless rwd doesnt work anymore. Far too much power for single axle drivetrain. Back in the day they were great but thats because they had no excessive power back then and were far more poised.
When was that, in the 50'? How can anyone take you seriously. You mentioned the Ring, the record right now is held by a rwd 911 GT2. Most racing cars are rwd.
antych is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2017, 04:53 PM   #51
ScottBacon
Achieved official socks
 
ScottBacon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 10,554
Car: 2017 F82 M4 CP
Colour Combo: Silverstone II
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fireblade1 View Post
Is there any need
Classic ‘my c0ck is bigger than yours’
ScottBacon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2017, 06:40 PM   #52
M4S55
A mere Chipper
 
M4S55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 46
Car: M4 Boring White
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by E46CoupeM3 View Post
No, it isn't
I'm reasonably sure an M4 will school an 850 mini around most tracks, so which FWD, what spec?

If you are going from a sweeping generalisation that isn't supportable to a measurable situation you need to specific
Seat leon
Golf gti clubsport
Civic type r
Renault megane
Theblist really does go on, so in true korbinite fashion you sterred away from the obvious with plucky whit that didnt quite work.

As a side not, the GT3 RS is a track car, its tyres are 14j, it has zero comfort, no interior, and hurts to drive, it is impossible to class it the same, yet it still gets absolutely schooled by an awd GT-R so again my point still stands.

Before someone comes out with the typical F1 waff.........

It has only one use, enough downforce to snap a normal car in half, tyres worth more than our houses and the engine sat on the rear wheels ontop of all that.

If bmw, mercedes, audi, tesla, most up to date supercars etc etc are all going awd there must be a reason, although if 4 guys from a forum come to the titans of car manufacturing and explain that they are wring because spinning wheels is fun and dangerous they may rethink their entire was of thinking and stick to wrong wheel drive for you 😉
M4S55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2017, 06:58 PM   #53
E46CoupeM3
Achieved official socks
 
E46CoupeM3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: England
Posts: 12,979
Car: 2001 BMW M3
Colour Combo: Carbon Black
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M4S55 View Post
Seat leon
Golf gti clubsport
Civic type r
Renault megane
Theblist really does go on, so in true korbinite fashion you sterred away from the obvious with plucky whit that didnt quite work.

As a side not, the GT3 RS is a track car, its tyres are 14j, it has zero comfort, no interior, and hurts to drive, it is impossible to class it the same, yet it still gets absolutely schooled by an awd GT-R so again my point still stands.

Before someone comes out with the typical F1 waff.........

It has only one use, enough downforce to snap a normal car in half, tyres worth more than our houses and the engine sat on the rear wheels ontop of all that.

If bmw, mercedes, audi, tesla, most up to date supercars etc etc are all going awd there must be a reason, although if 4 guys from a forum come to the titans of car manufacturing and explain that they are wring because spinning wheels is fun and dangerous they may rethink their entire was of thinking and stick to wrong wheel drive for you 😉
And what's that got to do with anything if the following is true?
Quote:
Originally Posted by antych View Post
When was that, in the 50'? How can anyone take you seriously. You mentioned the Ring, the record right now is held by a rwd 911 GT2. Most racing cars are rwd.
Pretty darn good for a RWD car when "RWD cars don't work"
E46CoupeM3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2017, 07:04 PM   #54
Melvyn
Achieved official socks
 
Melvyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 8,430
Car: F13M6 CP Silverstone2 with MPE that don't break
Default

^^^^^^ m4s55
I tend to agree with you.
These new breed of 600 hp plus cars need to be reined in either by a good tc or awd.
Lots of Stirling Mosses on here, this 600 hp M6 I've got will drive through the tc and if you turned it off you would shred the tyres.That to me is not fun.
New M5 no tc in awd is a complete waste of an option, and it will suffer on sales because of it.
You will get some saying feather the throttle blah blah blah, there will be one time when you forget on a haltsign to beat a car heading your way and you will 360 it.
Melvyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2017, 07:06 PM   #55
Melvyn
Achieved official socks
 
Melvyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 8,430
Car: F13M6 CP Silverstone2 with MPE that don't break
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by E46CoupeM3 View Post
And what's that got to do with anything if the following is true?

Pretty darn good for a RWD car when "RWD cars don't work"
Jump in it then, don't forget your "Kleenex"
Melvyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2017, 07:52 PM   #56
E46CoupeM3
Achieved official socks
 
E46CoupeM3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: England
Posts: 12,979
Car: 2001 BMW M3
Colour Combo: Carbon Black
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvyn View Post
Jump in it then, don't forget your "Kleenex"
Really, quotes around a brand name.
E46CoupeM3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2017, 07:58 PM   #57
Melvyn
Achieved official socks
 
Melvyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 8,430
Car: F13M6 CP Silverstone2 with MPE that don't break
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by E46CoupeM3 View Post
Really, quotes around a brand name.
Fooken Magic
Melvyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2017, 11:49 PM   #58
M4S55
A mere Chipper
 
M4S55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 46
Car: M4 Boring White
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvyn View Post
^^^^^^ m4s55
I tend to agree with you.
These new breed of 600 hp plus cars need to be reined in either by a good tc or awd.
Lots of Stirling Mosses on here, this 600 hp M6 I've got will drive through the tc and if you turned it off you would shred the tyres.That to me is not fun.
New M5 no tc in awd is a complete waste of an option, and it will suffer on sales because of it.
You will get some saying feather the throttle blah blah blah, there will be one time when you forget on a haltsign to beat a car heading your way and you will 360 it.
Im glad im not alone. Back when rwd were 300bhp etc i had more than enough love for them, bmw have always had the styling and comfort i like, but as you said as they got to high power, high torque at low revs from magic turbos etc etc they became a hindrance to themselves, feathering a throttle becomes a slow car as all that power is wasted, if tc is on its as good as 300bhp and galf the torque so in theory the power upgrades qere conpletely wasted and far from utilized. Awd is a must at this power. My 458 was a death box on wheels, my 911 Turbo is amazing in everyway, yet my 997.1 gt3 was a window maker at the best of times and that had the engine sat on the rears. The new M5 rwd mode having a lack of tc is a let down but pwrsonally i think just like dct vs manual all the "purists" will realise the rwd mode is obsolete anyway, as if you consider its purepy to do spinny drifts or donuts so theoretically with tc in it wpuldnt do any of those things which again makes it pointless to be rwd at that point i think. Plus the power distributiin of the bmw awd can semd 100% to the rear just like my 911 so itll be tail happy but be able to drag out when s**t hits the fan
M4S55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes



All times are GMT. The time now is 04:45 AM.


This website uses cookies. By continuing to use the site you are agreeing to our use of cookies. To find out more about the cookies this website uses, click here.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2007 - 2014 M3cutters. All Rights Reserved.