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Old 27th February 2017, 02:55 PM   #21
schooner32
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You're right. If nothing has changed and you use koyo bearings then it should fall into spec. If your using timken they might be slightly different. Probably negligible.

I'm keeping the same LSD.

On another note, thayer Motorsport told me on Instagram they have started retolerancing the M variable diff. Haven't seen anyone else offer this but it's not in their website yet. So waiting to see what they can offer in terms of new steels and clutches. At present no-one offers this. Only standard 210mm LSD parts.
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Old 27th February 2017, 03:36 PM   #22
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Yeah, I had kind of ruled out needing to check carrier pre-load with this thinking in mind, although it certainly won't do any harm to check/verify. I have the Timken bearings, so let's see how it all works out. Will be doing it within the next month.

Interesting stuff on the LSD unit. Mine locks up just fine right now, but will definitely keep an eye on that as it will no doubt need doing at some point. Surprising that no one else has offered it yet, especially with E46 M's getting up in mileage.
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Old 27th February 2017, 04:07 PM   #23
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Yeah, I had kind of ruled out needing to check carrier pre-load with this thinking in mind, although it certainly won't do any harm to check/verify. I have the Timken bearings, so let's see how it all works out. Will be doing it within the next month.

Interesting stuff on the LSD unit. Mine locks up just fine right now, but will definitely keep an eye on that as it will no doubt need doing at some point. Surprising that no one else has offered it yet, especially with E46 M's getting up in mileage.
I have three LSD units I'll open up two of them and have a look at the state of the clutches. Hopefully they will be reusable. Don't want to disturb my current healthy diff. Will keep it as a spare.
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Old 27th February 2017, 05:01 PM   #24
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Dropped my diff last Weekend and the cause of play in mine seems to be the planet gears. I can rock the drivers side output shaft 1/2 inch due to this.

Has anyone had this issue or a solution?

Pretty sure it's the source of the metallic clunk I get from the back of my car when touching the throttle (smg)
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Old 27th February 2017, 05:10 PM   #25
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Dropped my diff last Weekend and the cause of play in mine seems to be the planet gears. I can rock the drivers side output shaft 1/2 inch due to this.

Has anyone had this issue or a solution?

Pretty sure it's the source of the metallic clunk I get from the back of my car when touching the throttle (smg)
Your spot on with the planet gears. I about this from a specialist in the states who said it's the planet gears responsible for the increase in the M clunk. It's something that has to be tolerated as it's not repairable. In saying that these cars had a typical clunk from new also.

The play in the driver's side stubby shaft is characteristic of the diff and possibly yours in increased but they do move and wiggle up and down quite a bit. And a common misconception is that it's the bearing. It's not. So don't let anyone tell you it's the bearing.

The relationship between the planet gears and the shaft play is negligible imo. The reason is because of the size of the shaft and that it gets very little support from surrounding spline die to the stubbiness. If it was longer it would be more stable like the left side. I don't see this wiggle as a problem.
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Old 27th February 2017, 05:46 PM   #26
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OK thanks! I was looking at wether to get mine rebuilt as it was worrying me. Car has covered 160k but the diff was silent in terms of whine so I'm in two minds now. May just add new seals and oil, put it back together and wait until it dies properly.
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Old 27th February 2017, 06:24 PM   #27
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OK thanks! I was looking at wether to get mine rebuilt as it was worrying me. Car has covered 160k but the diff was silent in terms of whine so I'm in two minds now. May just add new seals and oil, put it back together and wait until it dies properly.
If there is no whine and the LSD locks up then don't panic.
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Old 27th February 2017, 10:24 PM   #28
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What ill effects will I experience if I dont get my gears polisged?
heres the reply i wrote to someone the other day in a message:

Basically the brand new CWP from BMW is case hardened and left in a bad surface quality to allow the gears to mesh properly. The super finishing will let the pinion glide across the crown wheel smoothly.
If you can excuse the comparison, its almost like feeling the difference of rubbing sand papers together and then comparing it to rubbing 2 sheets of A4 together and then 2 bits of tin foil together. smoother surface, better glide, resulting in less resistance.
It is just a road car after all but if you let the surfaces glide rather than grind then you'll get optimum life from your gear set.

Last edited by Mrd1984; 27th February 2017 at 10:45 PM.
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Old 28th February 2017, 08:58 AM   #29
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heres the reply i wrote to someone the other day in a message:

Basically the brand new CWP from BMW is case hardened and left in a bad surface quality to allow the gears to mesh properly. The super finishing will let the pinion glide across the crown wheel smoothly.
If you can excuse the comparison, its almost like feeling the difference of rubbing sand papers together and then comparing it to rubbing 2 sheets of A4 together and then 2 bits of tin foil together. smoother surface, better glide, resulting in less resistance.
It is just a road car after all but if you let the surfaces glide rather than grind then you'll get optimum life from your gear set.
After a few k will the gears not sort of break them selves in. Change the fluid a few times afterwards. Problem is I don't think anyone in Ireland offers shot peening.
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Old 28th February 2017, 09:21 AM   #30
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After a few k will the gears not sort of break them selves in. Change the fluid a few times afterwards. Problem is I don't think anyone in Ireland offers shot peening.
I assumed myself that the black surfacing on the carrier gear was some sort of break-in coating?
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Old 28th February 2017, 11:26 PM   #31
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After a few k will the gears not sort of break them selves in. Change the fluid a few times afterwards. Problem is I don't think anyone in Ireland offers shot peening.
Yeah they will i guess but you don't really want that when it comes to gears. You want them to stay as they are when you build it. Besides which all that black on the gears that gets rubbed off by the pinion sliding across the crown wheel will have to go somewhere, and that will be mixed with the oil and go through the nice new bearings and rub the oil seals.

If a 4.1 CWP set is close to 800 then i want it to last as long as possible. if it was much cheaper then i would just slap it in and set all parameters and not worry. I just don't fancy forking out that sort of cash too regularly.

You don't want the gears shot peened either. This is normally done before the gear is case hardened. the next step is polishing (but not with a rag and some Brasso) look up REM gear polishing on youtube to get a better idea of what I'm talking about. you can start with a black gear and it comes out looking like its chromed. It looks lovely! Next mod will be a window in the diff case to see where all the cash went!!!

Last edited by Mrd1984; 28th February 2017 at 11:32 PM.
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Old 2nd March 2017, 01:28 PM   #32
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Anyone have any recommendations on who to to use to rebuild my diff (rough prices and turn around times would be good too)?

It's whining under both accel and decel at the moment (worse on the decel), but getting louder.

No judder, clunks or banging noises though.
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Old 2nd March 2017, 04:34 PM   #33
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Anyone have any recommendations on who to to use to rebuild my diff (rough prices and turn around times would be good too)?

It's whining under both accel and decel at the moment (worse on the decel), but getting louder.

No judder, clunks or banging noises though.
Are you sure it isn't the centre prop bearing?
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Old 2nd March 2017, 05:39 PM   #34
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Are you sure it isn't the centre prop bearing?
I did wonder if it was that, so i had the car on a ramp the other day, whilst I drove the car, they had a listen, and said they could hear a whining noise from the bottom of the diff, but they couldn't get at the propshaft to check the centre bearing.
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Old 2nd March 2017, 10:17 PM   #35
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Anyone have any recommendations on who to to use to rebuild my diff (rough prices and turn around times would be good too)?

It's whining under both accel and decel at the moment (worse on the decel), but getting louder.

No judder, clunks or banging noises though.
Id be happy to rebuild your diff if you like?
it sounds like its in need of a refresh.
PM me if you are interested.
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Old 20th March 2017, 09:39 AM   #36
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Id be happy to rebuild your diff if you like?
it sounds like its in need of a refresh.
PM me if you are interested.
Just a quick post to say thanks to Darragh (Mrd1984) for rebuilding my diff for me, really knows his stuff and even removed and refitted it for me, which saved me some messing about

He did a great job for a great price.

The whining has stopped now (even when the mrs is in the car) and the car feels smoother to drive, but not surprising as apparently the pinion bearing was not moving quite as freely as it should have been
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Old 20th March 2017, 07:29 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by cossie1 View Post
Just a quick post to say thanks to Darragh (Mrd1984) for rebuilding my diff for me, really knows his stuff and even removed and refitted it for me, which saved me some messing about

He did a great job for a great price.

The whining has stopped now (even when the mrs is in the car) and the car feels smoother to drive, but not surprising as apparently the pinion bearing was not moving quite as freely as it should have been
No worries at all mate! It was a pleasure meeting you. top bloke!
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Old 13th August 2017, 08:49 AM   #38
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Hey chaps, i am about to install 4.10 CWP in my diff and trying to get all info and tools ready. One thing that I am still unclear on is pinion depth. Is there a specific pinion depth recommended for this configration or do you adjust it based on checking the contact of gears with marking compount? Plan is to only purchase 2 sets of carriers shims 33139065736 and 33139065737 and hope that pinion depth wont need to be adjusted. Is it likely to be sufficient?
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Old 13th August 2017, 10:21 AM   #39
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Hey chaps, i am about to install 4.10 CWP in my diff and trying to get all info and tools ready. One thing that I am still unclear on is pinion depth. Is there a specific pinion depth recommended for this configration or do you adjust it based on checking the contact of gears with marking compount? Plan is to only purchase 2 sets of carriers shims 33139065736 and 33139065737 and hope that pinion depth wont need to be adjusted. Is it likely to be sufficient?
In my case the pinion depth was perfect without needing to change the pinion shim. You will definitely need to adjust the carrier shims. There are engravings on the gear set that would help you set the perfect pinion height but I found out that these are only of use if you have the special BMW tool for 210mm diffs and without that tool the engravings are useless. The tool cannot be bought, I tried to find it out of interest.

So the only way to set the pinion height is to set the whole lot up with preloads and correct backlash and then check contact pattern. Then you will need to take the whole lot apart again to change the shim or/and to refit the proper final bearings if you used a dummy bearing. Dummy bearing is a great idea to get an idea of where you are at regarding pinion height and then it's easier to knock the pinion out to her at the shim. The shim is under the inner pinion bearing race and therefore you need to knock the race out to change it for a new one and in the process make sure you fit the shim before fitting new race. A dummy race could even be used to make it easier to knock out the race easier and avoid damaging a brand new race.

I recommend buying a few crush sleeves and buy two outer pinion bearings. One will be your final bearing and the other will be your dummy bearing which you will remove a tiny bit of material from inside the bore. This makes it easy to remove pinion without having to press it out.

The old inner pinion race can be a dummy race which you can knock out and then sand down the edges to make knocking it in and out easier to change the shim if needed. Fit brand new race of same manufacturer when satisfied.

You can reuse your original crush sleeve for the first dummy build. Give it a tiny squeeze in the vice to lengthen it ever so slightly so you can get some preload on the bearings. This is just to get an idea where your at shim wise. When fitting the new crush sleeve you can preceush it just enough to get it moving. This will make life easier when your torquing that b1tche down.
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Old 15th August 2017, 09:45 AM   #40
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Many thanks schooner32. From what i read seems like everyone gets luckly with the pinion depth on e46 m3 diff so i ll count on that Did you end up using shims from both kits 33139065736 and 33139065737? Also were you not able to reuse the old outter pinion bearing as a dummy?

Cheers,

Alex
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