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Old 16th April 2018, 07:39 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by Jaxxman81 View Post
yes but you also need to look at motive; makes no sense for either Russia or syrian government to decide to use chemical weapons on the very day after they'd finally won the last major battle for eastern ghouta.

And maybe that’s the plan, looks like there was no motive so commit the act with no obvious motive, tell the world that it was faked then all the conspiracy theorists rock up, job done. Any less believable than the whole thing being staged?

For the countries that have been itching for a reason to topple the government for the best part of 50years, and have said that chemical weapons is the 'red line', there's every reason to have some 'moderate rebels' drop a few canisters of chlorine..

But they’re not trying to topple him, the attack wasn’t about regime change as they’ve said several times. Rebels don’t have any aerial platforms with which to drop anything, only the government and the Russians have so how would that work exactly? It doesn’t......

the russians also said that this staged attack would be used as a pretext to attack government installations and infrastructure..
makes no sense to me why they would want to escalate that situation when they're winning
The conspiracy theorists love a far fetched story, but only if it aportions blame to the west, and not those poor old innocent mass murdering dictators the poor things.
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Old 16th April 2018, 08:32 AM   #102
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And who’s to say that if he did say that, it wasn’t them knowingly guiding the narrative before the event, so they can now turn around and say “look we told you this would happen!)?

I don’t think anyone will come out if this well, but I find the whole “faked attack” completely unbelievable, not because I’m a muppet who’s sucked in by mainstream media, but the shear logistics and risks involved of controlling so many variables make it a total non starter for me.

And why do Russia insist on vetoing any move to investigate these attacks if they are as innocent as they claim? Sorry but believe what you like, and base your beliefs on past actions if that makes you happy, but on this occasion I believe our lot......as unfashionable and boring as that may be.
Like you I try and get all the information then make an informed decision .
Couple of points on your post .
I notice you only pick out the Russian saying about the fake attack .
I totally get that ,pre emotive narrative before the event ,
Is it coincidence the saudi visited all 3 involved ?
Personally I find it strange
And second ,
Did you read the wording of the western backed UN resolution .
It was to first blame Assad without investigation ,which in turn would give the mandate for military action .
The Russians put forward a counter resolution to get the inspectors in ASAP then to come back .
The western media I saw certainly never mentioned the counter resolution ,unless I missed it .
The inspectors are there now ,the day after military action ,so someone allowed them in ,
Appreciate your reply Biggles
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Old 16th April 2018, 10:08 AM   #103
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I think all sides (in here) have raised valid points.

Personally, I think Syria is the battleground of Russia vs. USA.

Russia needs that area for economic security & defence objectives.
The USA want to dominate the Middle East (again for economic and strategic purposes).

The fallout is that those caught in the middle (Syrian civilians) suffer the most.

The wider impact is the UK / France and the rest of the world are being dragged in to military action by 'good relationships' with the USA as what's good for the USA is also good for it's partners / allies.

On top of that you've got a propaganda war and spread of dis-information so the likes of the general public find it increasingly difficult to know what the real truth is. I don't doubt that both the Russians an the American's have their own agendas for Syria.

Russia - We're helping get rid of terrorists!
USA - We're protecting the lives of Syrians!

After Ukraine / Crimea (even before that actually) the Russians have demonstrated what they'll do to protect themselves & their prosperity. The same can be said for the USA's foreign policy in the Middle East (Iraq / Afghan).

Neither have a good track record and neither can be trusted to deliver the 'truth'. As an ally to the USA / EU we will almost always follow the USA's lead.
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Old 16th April 2018, 10:55 AM   #104
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Ive received complaints about this thread and having read some of the posts by various members, i'm inclined to close it.

Please keep you language civil, bare in mind others may not have your views, this is why we at the forum try to steer clear of political views.

I'll keep it open for the time being but I'm keeping my eyes on this, please refrain from bad language and name calling.
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Old 16th April 2018, 03:58 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaiJai View Post
Like you I try and get all the information then make an informed decision .
Couple of points on your post .
I notice you only pick out the Russian saying about the fake attack .
I totally get that ,pre emotive narrative before the event ,
Is it coincidence the saudi visited all 3 involved ?
Personally I find it strange
And second ,
Did you read the wording of the western backed UN resolution .
It was to first blame Assad without investigation ,which in turn would give the mandate for military action .
The Russians put forward a counter resolution to get the inspectors in ASAP then to come back .
The western media I saw certainly never mentioned the counter resolution ,unless I missed it .
The inspectors are there now ,the day after military action ,so someone allowed them in ,
Appreciate your reply Biggles
I did read the info on the veto, along with the several other votes on moves to investigate they have blocked. Personally I think there’s a whole lot of semantics and word play at work with them, at face value they may have had a point, but taken in context with every other bit of obfuscation on their behalf I just don’t trust their motives.

I’ve also just read that the OPCW are on the ground and ready to go, but funny old thing the Russians have blocked/delayed-call it what you will, their access to the scene. If I was them and as innocent as they claim, I’d be falling over myself to get them in ASAP to substantiate my claims.

I don’t really have many thoughts on your Saudi link, other than if they were indeed conspiring, would they need high profile face to face meetings to conjure up their plans in this day and age?
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Old 16th April 2018, 04:49 PM   #106
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edited for content
I don't agree with your views, but I agree that everyone is entitled their own views. No one should be name calling or bashing anyone.

Keyboard warriors springs to mind.

Last edited by ccfj1; 16th April 2018 at 08:16 PM.
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Old 16th April 2018, 07:34 PM   #107
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As a race we've progressed to the peak and I feel we're heading back down by destroying each other (cutters threads seem to be a brilliant example) and the planet as a result, just to show off personal power & ego!

Really makes me wonder whether I should even be having kids.....
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Old 16th April 2018, 08:12 PM   #108
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OK thats it. Ive deleted both your posts in this thread.

Toplad and ADL, you are both on a warning.

If you continue to behave in the manner, there will be serious consequences.

If you wish to continue in this please take it off line, i will be monitoring your posts, be warned....

I'm now closing this thread as you two dont seem to be able to act as adults.

Last edited by ccfj1; 16th April 2018 at 08:14 PM.
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