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Old 12th February 2013, 10:48 AM   #1
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Default Nurburgring - Suspension/alignment settings

OK guys, I'm booking up the annual pilgrimage to the 'Ring tonight and I'm selling off stuff (Supra & Ferrari bits on ebay, trailer on here, Range Rover wheels coming up soon!) so I can spend a few quid on the M3 before I go (seats & coilovers hopefully).

I'm thinking of going for some D2 coilovers as they are a good price, have camber adjustable top mounts, can be ordered with different spring rates and I cannot find anything bad written about them!

The problem is, I am a get in the car and drive type of person, not one for trying different tyre pressures, suspension heights, camber settings etc. so I'm looking for advice on a set-up for the 'Ring that I can get whoever fits the coilovers to set up from the start.

So any advice on ride heights front and rear, spring rates, camber (is there much camber adjustment available on the standard rear set up), toe etc will be gratefully received!!
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Old 12th February 2013, 10:53 AM   #2
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I don't know much about D2 coilovers (aren't they budget?)

Save yourself a few quid and just get some Bilstein B6/B8 dampers and some Intrax lowering springs (with the non M e46 rear spring pads) and you are good to go.

This set up is more than adequate and doesn't require the setting up that a fully adjustable kit does.

I came from a background of e36 m3s running camber arms, adj top mounts, coilovers etc and whilst it's all great I found that my e90 330i running just the Bilstein kit was just as good at attacking the ring! Took my e46 M3 to the 'ring for the first time in Oct and it was fantastic and the only mod was the Intrax springs.

Unless you are going racing then anything else is overkill!
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Old 12th February 2013, 12:16 PM   #3
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I don't know much about D2 coilovers (aren't they budget?)

Save yourself a few quid and just get some Bilstein B6/B8 dampers and some Intrax lowering springs (with the non M e46 rear spring pads) and you are good to go.

This set up is more than adequate and doesn't require the setting up that a fully adjustable kit does.

I came from a background of e36 m3s running camber arms, adj top mounts, coilovers etc and whilst it's all great I found that my e90 330i running just the Bilstein kit was just as good at attacking the ring! Took my e46 M3 to the 'ring for the first time in Oct and it was fantastic and the only mod was the Intrax springs.

Unless you are going racing then anything else is overkill!
Well I must say that mine was great there last year just with Eibach springs and Toyo R888's (although the Toyo's were going off Hohe Acht/Wipperman) but I think my front dampers are on their way out so I thought I'd go for some coilovers. I did think about upping the front Toyo from a 235/40x18 to a 255/35 or 265/35 to give them a better chance.

I assume a set D2's or HSD's although budget should still be better than standard dampers and Eibach springs though wouldn't they? Or not?
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Old 12th February 2013, 12:25 PM   #4
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I've tried HSDs and to be honest I wouldn't ever buy a set again. They are great value but not very 'sophisticated' in their design and research and they don't really last either.

Mine were brand new when I fitted them, then I sold my car and the new owner did 5 ring trips in them (and not that many laps to be fair) then my mate bought the car off him and they were shot! Two dampers (one front and one rear) were leaking and the damper units were corroded and rusty, then not long after something on the car failed resulting in a massive crash and a huge fireball! One dead e36. Was it due to the HSDs? We will never know as not much of the car survived!

You pay for what you get with suspension and I will never put a budget set of coilies on a car again. That's why the tried and tested good lowering springs with Billy shocks always works well. Bilstein are German TuV approved too which means they've been properly tested and goverment approved for safety.

If anything perhaps you should consider going for some Eibach antiroll bars along with the Billys and lowering springs.

If you must go for coilovers then a set of KW V2 or Bilstein PSS10 are your best bet. Relatively good value and simple to adjust. V3s whilst good have so much adjustment that it's only really necessary if you are going to play with them and as you said you want to fit and forget once they've been set up by a pro!
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Old 12th February 2013, 05:22 PM   #5
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Geo!!

Go max camber in the front. Aim for anywhere between -1.5 to 3 each side.
Then run your toe as close to 0 as possible. I am running very slight toe out 0.03/0.02
What this does is makes direction change for quicker and eliminates understeer. At the cost of straight line stability but I do 90 on the M25 and its fine.

Rear try to run half to a degree less camber than front with again zero toe or if you have to slight toe in.

Overall this set up give a very neutral balanced car, with no oversteer and very controlable oversteer.

Obviously suspension is a black art matey so yes you will get a million different opinions but this set up I run on the Stock suspension and it is fantastic. Its a set up which many cars on the track run and it is a fast road set up all be it leaving a lot more in the drivers hands.

I use this for my commute daily which is 30 mins or country roads through villages and its lovely and direct in the twisties.

P.s Prior to this i was running much more toe in on the front and whilst it was stable it was slight intially understeer and the neutral and then understeer mid corner and the bucket loads of oversteer.

It does all depend on you though. what you prefer. Also I agree with Dino 100% mate. Whilst I have nothing against lower end coilovers. Or people that use them.

Your better option is stick with stock suspension. And if it needs replacing then replace with intrax springs and Bilstein shocks. and then when you are ready get a proper suspension set up. Especially if you are planning on doing track days often.

Reccomendations would would Ohlins RT and moton ss1 RT which are both very good for track work and road use.

Or a set of Intrax 1k2 which is true coilover set up for the 46M would need to reinforce the rear towers with a bar or cage. But we are talking around 5 to 10secs a lap quicker obviously more at the ring.

All the best matey
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Old 13th February 2013, 01:23 PM   #6
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Just been having a bit of a phone round and search on the web, got prices from AMD & MStyle and waiting for a price from ETA Motorsport for KW V3's.
AMD 1842 all in for V3.
MStyle 1674 all in for V3, 1374 for V2.

Also, MStyle offering Insp.1 at 199.99 and Insp. 2 at 400 (plus extra if tappets need adjustment).

Are MStyle any good? Has anyone used them before?
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Old 13th February 2013, 01:46 PM   #7
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Give Evolve a call
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Old 13th February 2013, 02:03 PM   #8
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Mate larkspeed are doing the v3 for 1463 plus a tenner for delivery.
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Old 13th February 2013, 02:04 PM   #9
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Are u sure u don't want the 1k2?
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Old 13th February 2013, 02:34 PM   #10
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Are u sure u don't want the 1k2?
Best I can find 1K2 for is 2700 without fitting! A grand more than V3's fitted! And remember I started off wanting some 650 D2's or HSD's!!
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Old 13th February 2013, 04:45 PM   #11
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Fair play mate. Makes sense. That price u got from mstyle all in. Is that fitted?
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Old 13th February 2013, 05:37 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MBungle View Post
(although the Toyo's were going off Hohe Acht/Wipperman) but I think my front dampers are on their way out so I thought I'd go for some coilovers. I did think about upping the front Toyo from a 235/40x18 to a 255/35 or 265/35 to give them a better chance.
Maybe you should check you tyre pressures more often then?

tbh a 235 888 on a heavy e46 is going to get its head kicked in if you are going at a proper pace, square is great for swapping front to rear



Quote:
Originally Posted by dino View Post

If you must go for coilovers then a set of KW V2 or Bilstein PSS10 are your best bet. Relatively good value and simple to adjust. V3s whilst good have so much adjustment that it's only really necessary if you are going to play with them and as you said you want to fit and forget once they've been set up by a pro!

I have v3's on my focus, I have a few track settings written down, then at the end of the day, when swapping wheels over it takes all of 5 minutes to adjust all 8 adjusters to full soft for a really good road setting imo ( I don't go fast on the road nowadays - no point when you have been on track I find )
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Old 13th February 2013, 06:43 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Northenjim View Post
Maybe you should check you tyre pressures more often then?

tbh a 235 888 on a heavy e46 is going to get its head kicked in if you are going at a proper pace, square is great for swapping front to rear

I have v3's on my focus, I have a few track settings written down, then at the end of the day, when swapping wheels over it takes all of 5 minutes to adjust all 8 adjusters to full soft for a really good road setting imo ( I don't go fast on the road nowadays - no point when you have been on track I find )
I do check the oil level, tyre pressures and the wheel bolts every few laps, but the thought of taking wheels off and adjusting suspension settings throughout the day doesn't appeal.

Not sure what a proper pace is, I was usually around the 8m30s mark (BTG) with a best of 8m22.8s.

So with the V3's do just set bump and rebound to full hard when on track then full soft on road, or do you have bump at one setting, rebound something else and then front and rear different too?
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Old 13th February 2013, 07:08 PM   #14
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thorney motorsport have pdf with all the settings.
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Old 13th February 2013, 07:09 PM   #15
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here you go mate

http://www.corsaracecar.co.uk/pdfs/suspensionSetUp.pdf

So was the price from mstyle you got a fitted price? If so thats very good.
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Old 13th February 2013, 08:33 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MBungle View Post
I do check the oil level, tyre pressures and the wheel bolts every few laps, but the thought of taking wheels off and adjusting suspension settings throughout the day doesn't appeal.

Not sure what a proper pace is, I was usually around the 8m30s mark (BTG) with a best of 8m22.8s.

So with the V3's do just set bump and rebound to full hard when on track then full soft on road, or do you have bump at one setting, rebound something else and then front and rear different too?
A proper pace is one which you can overheat your tyres at! 8m30 is respectable


When you buy some kw's they will come with reccommended settings, just put them in..... I have the booklet in my glovebox with the settings I use. ring is not fastest on full hard! 1/2 turn softer than my flat uk track setting... its up to you and how you like to drive - that thorney link is a good one actually

I just put them on soft for the way home, or not. you don't need the wheels off on my focus, you just need to lie on the ground. I think new v3's have both adjusters on top, so its just pop the bonnet, and the boot I know a few who have cut a flap in the boot carpet so you can get access on the e46) and away you go - when you have done it a few times its a piece of ****


I never normally change the settings during the day either
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Old 14th February 2013, 12:50 AM   #17
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Thanks guys.

Schmeel, yes that price is all in fitted with VAT
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Old 14th February 2013, 01:23 PM   #18
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Thats a really good price mate. Its a lovely piece of kit the V3's. And you always have the option to run linear springs in the future with a possible re-valve.

Enjoy mate. Also get some pics up after fitted.
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Old 18th February 2013, 09:29 AM   #19
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Steve Pook @ Spires

Or Tom Schirmer near the Ring will sort you out.
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Old 19th February 2013, 01:14 AM   #20
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i bought a carbon airbox off geoff steel and he set my car up for the ring using the settings he has ,im on kwv3 top mounts and rear camber arms . feels tight but wont know how good it is till this easter weekend in march when im going over , maybe try him he can help.
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