The M3cutters - UK BMW M3 Group Forum
 

Go Back   The M3cutters - UK BMW M3 Group Forum > M3 and M4 Talk > F80 M3 Saloon / F82 M4 Coupe / F83 M4 Convertible



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 13th March 2018, 02:30 PM   #21
DeadEye
Achieved official socks
 
DeadEye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,935
Car: M2 LCI in LBB
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Telfordboy View Post
Just for some context I had a previous PCP with Hitachi Capital and in a similar situation they did negotiate since they didn't want the car back to sell on at a loss. If I remember right they dropped the balloon by a couple of grand and I kept the car. Was hoping BMWFS might do something similar but it sounds like a no so far...
Your monthly payments were calculated from the GFV - however, like you say - they can have it back and sell at a loss or let you have it cheaper - give 'em a call!

Although when does your term end if you're only 2 years in?
DeadEye is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 13th March 2018, 03:10 PM   #22
Telfordboy
On the path
 
Telfordboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 69
Car: 2018 M4CS inbound. 2017 M4 CP gone. 2013 M135i gone
Colour Combo: SMB / black
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadEye View Post
Your monthly payments were calculated from the GFV - however, like you say - they can have it back and sell at a loss or let you have it cheaper - give 'em a call!

Although when does your term end if you're only 2 years in?
I'm a year or so from term so probably too early to call them. My options are keep the M4 (cheap option) or place an order for a 911GTS (not cheap). I would have to order the Porsche pretty soon to get a delivery in time, hence the reason I'm asking the question rather early.
Telfordboy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13th March 2018, 06:34 PM   #23
Dwaind
On the path
 
Dwaind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 97
Car: M4
Default

So I bought an M4 on 0% PCP with a village of 15kpa the (G)FV is 22k. As it was 0% the cost of finance didn't change but the final value dived. I thought that was good. Was I wrong ?

I am doing about half that millage atm
Dwaind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th March 2018, 06:59 PM   #24
Jacko 11
Rocking a new hat
 
Jacko 11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 575
Car: M3 F80 CP
Default

Think you need to watch GFV as some can be higher than others. I have noted that Mercedes, BMW & Audi all tend to have highish GFV and BMWs depreciate a lot, as do most cars. A higher GFV means a higher payment at the end - although this could work in your favour if you have a diesel car and values suddenly plummet in which case hand the car back after a period of time.
There is never any guarantee that you will have equity in the car on PCP deal. You could put a larger deposit with lower monthly payments and still lose money (reduced equity). Unless you wish to buy the car and keep it at the end I would chop it in for something else.
An astute friend of mine always puts the minimum down and pays the monthly costs (RR Sport) as he knows that you will only lose money on cars. It might be an idea to try and save a bit extra each month to reduce the balloon payment\refinance at the end to own the car.
I tend not to keep the car until the end of the term and change early.
Jacko 11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th March 2018, 07:55 PM   #25
rsk21
Achieved official socks
 
rsk21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,466
Car: Various - ex M4 vert CP
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by C1CDG View Post
So, if you reach the end of your 3 or 4 year PCP, and really love the car you’ve owned from new and want to pay it, you may well actually overpay for the privaledge?

Out of interest id love to know trade value now on the very earliest 14 plate M3/4 against its original baloon which I assume would be £24-£26k??
Overpaying versus market value at the time is irrelevant here. When the punter signs up to a PCP he enters a binding contract and his monthly payments are calculated specifically on an end value that if he wants the vehicle at the end of term he has already agreed to pay. No finance house will negotiate on this I’m afraid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schuey View Post
It’s very clever how they took the word ‘Guaranteed’ out of the paperwork also.

So now it’s just a Future Value and no longer a GFV
GFV and FV aren’t used anywhere in mass market auto finance. The new term which all the manufacturers very quietly slipped in instead is “optional final payment” meaning they have no obligation to underwrite a p/x value.
rsk21 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13th March 2018, 08:13 PM   #26
jayukRS
Achieved official socks
 
jayukRS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leicester
Posts: 12,275
Car: M4 Austin yellow Comp pack DCT
Colour Combo: Austin/black
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by C1CDG View Post
So, if you reach the end of your 3 or 4 year PCP, and really love the car you’ve owned from new and want to pay it, you may well actually overpay for the privaledge?

Out of interest id love to know trade value now on the very earliest 14 plate M3/4 against its original baloon which I assume would be £24-£26k??
In December mate I got £29.5k for my 14 plate light spec car against the CP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schuey View Post
If the balloon is more than the value of the car, can’t you just leave the car with them and walk away?
Yes, but you have to finish the term. I think you can also VT half way through the term and walk but unsure on specifics of this.
jayukRS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th March 2018, 08:52 PM   #27
CJPJ
On the path
 
CJPJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 142
Car: BMW
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayukRS View Post
In December mate I got £29.5k for my 14 plate light spec car against the CP


Yes, but you have to finish the term. I think you can also VT half way through the term and walk but unsure on specifics of this.
I think you can walk away so long as you have paid at least 50% of the total cost of the finance agreement. So if you bought a car for £55k with a £5k deposit with GFV of £28k and 48 monthly payments of £600 ...... you would take the £55k add total interest charges - say £8k to make £63k - and then so long as 50% of this has been paid or £31.5k then you could walk away. In this example you would have to pay £31.5k less £5k deposit less 45 payments of £600. You could only walk away 3 months before the end of the PCP.

I could be wrong but thats my understanding.
CJPJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th March 2018, 08:53 PM   #28
jayukRS
Achieved official socks
 
jayukRS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leicester
Posts: 12,275
Car: M4 Austin yellow Comp pack DCT
Colour Combo: Austin/black
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJPJ View Post
I think you can walk away so long as you have paid at least 50% of the total cost of the finance agreement. So if you bought a car for £55k with a £5k deposit with GFV of £28k and 48 monthly payments of £600 ...... you would take the £55k add total interest charges - say £8k to make £63k - and then so long as 50% of this has been paid or £31.5k then you could walk away. In this example you would have to pay £31.5k less £5k deposit less 45 payments of £600. You could only walk away 3 months before the end of the PCP.

I could be wrong but thats my understanding.
Double post
jayukRS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th March 2018, 08:55 PM   #29
jayukRS
Achieved official socks
 
jayukRS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leicester
Posts: 12,275
Car: M4 Austin yellow Comp pack DCT
Colour Combo: Austin/black
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJPJ View Post
I think you can walk away so long as you have paid at least 50% of the total cost of the finance agreement. So if you bought a car for £55k with a £5k deposit with GFV of £28k and 48 monthly payments of £600 ...... you would take the £55k add total interest charges - say £8k to make £63k - and then so long as 50% of this has been paid or £31.5k then you could walk away. In this example you would have to pay £31.5k less £5k deposit less 45 payments of £600. You could only walk away 3 months before the end of the PCP.

I could be wrong but thats my understanding.
Yeah it's something like that if you VT. But if you run the term there's nothing to pay I believe if you don't pay the balloon which essentially is your GFV . I always chop in half way through and never really had to pay anything extra so wouldn't know the ins and outs.

Last edited by jayukRS; 13th March 2018 at 08:57 PM.
jayukRS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th March 2018, 10:02 PM   #30
FlipperMan
A mere Chipper
 
FlipperMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 36
Car: 2016 M4
Default

The financial services companies got wise to voluntary termination a number of years ago, they got pretty p*ssed off with the dealers in their sister companies (the National Sales Companies who import the cars) actually approaching customers and suggesting they VT the cars and buy new. I’ve VT’d my last 2 cars - there’s no final admin charge and it’s typically just over 3yrs in a 4yr deal (on the BMW’s I’ve owned). No FS company (of the ones I’ve done work for - MBZ, BMW, Leaseplan, Fiat, JLR, VW Group) will negotiate a balloon. They would look at refinancing for you but the RV (Residual Value) estimating is so good these days that they’re usually bang on. They accept, across their book, there will be wins and losses.
FlipperMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th March 2018, 10:14 PM   #31
ScottBacon
Achieved official socks
 
ScottBacon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 12,635
Car: M3CS
Colour Combo: Alpine White
Default

There is no chance to negotiate a RV on an existing contract. That is what you signed up for and that is what the payments on the whole term have been based on.
ScottBacon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th March 2018, 05:13 AM   #32
charltjr
On the path
 
charltjr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 57
Car: E46 M3 SMG
Default

The reason the whole GFV/FV terminology is being dropped is they were worried about the number of people who thought they were being guaranteed to get that much in trade-in for their car at the end of the term.

Optional final payment is clearer for joe public to understand. Doesn’t change how a PCP works, the final payment is still underwritten by the finance house so there’s no extra risk for the consumer.
charltjr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th March 2018, 08:12 AM   #33
rsk21
Achieved official socks
 
rsk21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,466
Car: Various - ex M4 vert CP
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottBacon View Post
There is no chance to negotiate a RV on an existing contract. That is what you signed up for and that is what the payments on the whole term have been based on.
This !

Quote:
Originally Posted by charltjr View Post
The reason the whole GFV/FV terminology is being dropped is they were worried about the number of people who thought they were being guaranteed to get that much in trade-in for their car at the end of the term.

Optional final payment is clearer for joe public to understand. Doesn’t change how a PCP works, the final payment is still underwritten by the finance house so there’s no extra risk for the consumer.
It was also dropped over fears it left the industry massively exposed to claims of mis-selling and subsequent PPI style claims.

It is frightening how many people still understand neither the mechanics nor the obligations of a PCP deal and several posts on this thread simply highlights that.

I really don’t get how people sign up for such financial commitments with such little understanding of the product.
rsk21 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 14th March 2018, 08:35 AM   #34
SimonH
Achieved official socks
 
SimonH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,093
Car: M4 Comp Pack Mineral White/Sakhir Orange
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayukRS View Post
Yeah it's something like that if you VT. But if you run the term there's nothing to pay I believe if you don't pay the balloon which essentially is your GFV . I always chop in half way through and never really had to pay anything extra so wouldn't know the ins and outs.
Jay,
If you run the full term, the ballon payment does have to be paid, by either yourself, or the dealer who does the deal on your next car. The whole idea of PCP, was to structure a deal, whereby, at the end of the term, you would have some equity in the deal for your next car, after the balloon payment was taken into account.
I think folks who have bought an M product, should always meet the final payment, with equity in their car, if you have put a decent deposit in. Its when we want to change early that the problems arise.It doesnt help financial deals, when BMW seem to offer big discounts, and when 0% apr deals come along, thats a real kick in the teeth for current owners.
I have a 435d i simply cant/wont deal out of atm, due to a large Neg Eq factor, and that was with a 10k discount, and i put £5k in. BMW have made this car virtually worthless, with the deals they have offered since i bought the car for my wife. I have had 14 new cars from BMW in the last 10 years, and have been nowhere near the position i am in now, with any of the others.
Ive heard even BMW dealers say, that there may come a point when these PCP deals are to become the new PPI fiasco.
After saying all that, i personally dont think PCP deals are a bad thing, its just you have to understand how they work, and do the maths at the beginning for yourself. You must also buy a car, that you feel will hold its value. My435d is just a mainstream car, and BMW have mucked it up, by offering so many incentives to shift stock, but the longer i have the car, in theory, and hopefully, the neg eq will reduce, but i can see myself keeping it, to the point i can give it them back, which is usually around the 3 year mark in a 4 year deal, simply because i refuse to buy myself out of the deal.
Apologies for the long winded chat here
SimonH is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 14th March 2018, 08:50 AM   #35
pstevie
Wearing official underwear
 
pstevie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 161
Car: M2 LCI
Default

So as an example if I have a PCP with a 35k GFV and when it gets to the end of the term the car is only valued at 30k they wouldnt sell it to me at 30k?

What would they do with it?
pstevie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th March 2018, 08:53 AM   #36
jayukRS
Achieved official socks
 
jayukRS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leicester
Posts: 12,275
Car: M4 Austin yellow Comp pack DCT
Colour Combo: Austin/black
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonH View Post
Jay,
If you run the full term, the ballon payment does have to be paid, by either yourself, or the dealer who does the deal on your next car.

Oh of course it does, the balloon will be paid by the dealer as the supposed equity if any will clear it. What I'm saying and how I've been told that If you run the term and don't want to keep the car (paying the balloon) you walk.....
jayukRS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th March 2018, 08:56 AM   #37
rsk21
Achieved official socks
 
rsk21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,466
Car: Various - ex M4 vert CP
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pstevie View Post
So as an example if I have a PCP with a 35k GFV and when it gets to the end of the term the car is only valued at 30k they wouldnt sell it to me at 30k?

What would they do with it?
It won't have a GFV.

It will have an amount which you are obliged to pay under the terms of your contract if you want to keep it.

if market value is less than this its is irrelevant. The dealer has no say in it.
rsk21 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 14th March 2018, 08:59 AM   #38
rsk21
Achieved official socks
 
rsk21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,466
Car: Various - ex M4 vert CP
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayukRS View Post
Oh of course it does, the balloon will be paid by the dealer as the supposed equity if any will clear it. What I'm saying and how I've been told that If you run the term and don't want to keep the car (paying the balloon) you walk.....
Yes you walk, assuming the car is within the agreed mileage and condition terms you signed up to. If not you have to pay fees accordingly.

Again forgive me but how can people not know this when entering into what for most is their second largest financial commitment and for some their first ??!!!
rsk21 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 14th March 2018, 09:17 AM   #39
jayukRS
Achieved official socks
 
jayukRS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leicester
Posts: 12,275
Car: M4 Austin yellow Comp pack DCT
Colour Combo: Austin/black
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rsk21 View Post
Yes you walk, assuming the car is within the agreed mileage and condition terms you signed up to. If not you have to pay fees accordingly.

Again forgive me but how can people not know this when entering into what for most is their second largest financial commitment and for some their first ??!!!
I understand it mate as this is my understanding also
jayukRS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th March 2018, 09:34 AM   #40
SimonH
Achieved official socks
 
SimonH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,093
Car: M4 Comp Pack Mineral White/Sakhir Orange
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayukRS View Post
Oh of course it does, the balloon will be paid by the dealer as the supposed equity if any will clear it. What I'm saying and how I've been told that If you run the term and don't want to keep the car (paying the balloon) you walk.....
lets be certain of this Jay,
If your balloon payment is £25k at the end, and you run the full length of the term, and you want to hand it back to BMW, and they only see the car at £23k, then you will have to pay them £2k, before you do not have any further obligations under that deal. BMW FS, or any other finance company, want their balloon payment in full, from someone. The good thing here, as i was trying to elude to before, is that a BMW M4 should be worth more at the end, than the ballon payment. I cant see an M4 being only worth low £20ks at the end. Now if it was a BMW M3, thats a different matter, worthless !!!, oops sorry, did i say that out loud, lol,
SimonH is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes



All times are GMT. The time now is 09:52 AM.


This website uses cookies. By continuing to use the site you are agreeing to our use of cookies. To find out more about the cookies this website uses, click here.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2007 - 2018 M3cutters. All Rights Reserved.