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Old 14th June 2018, 06:11 AM   #1
firesafety
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Default Oil temps

My e36 had highish oil temps yesterday at Blyton. Has anyone on here had any experience of using the oil filter housing cap with outlets and running a secondary oil cooler?
Would also up oil capacity slightly which may also help?
Thanks
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Old 14th June 2018, 09:06 AM   #2
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How hot is too hot?

What is the car mainly used for?

I'm not sure how well a second cooler would work, the caps are usually an alternative to trying to find an m3 filter housing for cars that didn't come with one.

People take the thermostat out of the standard housing as it restricts flow, but wouldn't be ideal on a road car. Is the existing cooler in good contrition and clear of debris? If seen lots that are completely clogged solid so little to no air can pass through them. Is it still properly ducted?

I believe there's a slightly larger cooler you can fit to the standard pipework / brackets from an auto from memory.

You can buy adapters with hose to connect the standard filter housing outlets to any aftermarket cooler if you need a larger one.
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Old 14th June 2018, 10:03 AM   #3
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nearly sure Ive seen people fit the TDS oil cooler as its larger
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Old 14th June 2018, 12:31 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by pablo_ni View Post
nearly sure Ive seen people fit the TDS oil cooler as its larger
I was going to do this, only one I could find was at GSF and it cost 320!?!?

I'm also having a bit of trouble with rising oil temps, I get up to 110 C after a few laps, going to check its not blocked. do you just jet wash the cooler and try to blast the crap out?

Anyone know what temp you risk damaging the engine at?
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Old 14th June 2018, 12:51 PM   #5
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What type of oil?
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Old 14th June 2018, 01:54 PM   #6
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Im sure a generic one would suffice, even when adding the cost of fabbing some mounting tabs and adding connectors it would be a lot less than 320
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Old 14th June 2018, 03:20 PM   #7
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What temps are a problem depend on what grade of oil you are using. good 10-60 is good for up to 135.

10-40 is probably ok to 110/120 depending on what it is.

Larger oil coolers do not always solve the issue, there is not enough flow through the cooler to make the use of it. I have a 35 row (largest commonly available) and due to to the flow restriction its not significantly better than the 16row i ran previously. I will be removing the oil stat shortly to remedy this.

I frequently see 130 degrees on 10-60
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Old 15th June 2018, 06:40 AM   #8
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Mine has the 325tds larger cooler on it. It is like new. The car only gets tracked or the very occasional fast road blast.
Runs titan pro S 10w/40.
I am going to delete the thermostat.
Thanks for all the input.
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Old 15th June 2018, 08:46 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain View Post
What temps are a problem depend on what grade of oil you are using. good 10-60 is good for up to 135.

10-40 is probably ok to 110/120 depending on what it is.

Larger oil coolers do not always solve the issue, there is not enough flow through the cooler to make the use of it. I have a 35 row (largest commonly available) and due to to the flow restriction its not significantly better than the 16row i ran previously. I will be removing the oil stat shortly to remedy this.

I frequently see 130 degrees on 10-60
I'm also on 10 - 60 and sh1t myself when it gets to 110...

You sure its ok at 130?
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Old 15th June 2018, 09:46 AM   #10
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I'm also on 10 - 60 and sh1t myself when it gets to 110...

You sure its ok at 130?
Shell 10-60R in mine still produces good oil pressure at that temperature.

At 100 degrees the oil is still (about) 22cst when you compare that with say, millers nanodrive 10-40 which is about 14cst at 100 degrees you can see why.

I have never had any vanos operation issues or bearing issues at those temperatures and still see 6 bar of oil pressure at high rpm and 2 bar at idle, so its not all running out of the mains.

Ideally i would prefer it a bit lower 120ish would be ideal for me, which is why i am binning the oil stat as the cooler outlet is barely warm now its a 34 row
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Old 15th June 2018, 09:46 AM   #11
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I'm sure I read somewhere in the e46 section ( where 10w60 is the standard grade ) that BMW say not to run above 135c oil temperature for extended periods.

110 shouldn't worry it at all, especially if you change it regularly as most trackdayers tend to.

Taking the thermostat out does seem the logical next step with your setup, I'm not entirely sure how it works and whether it can be removed without destroying it so you could put it back if you found it taking too long to get up to temperature.
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Old 15th June 2018, 09:55 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harrypevo View Post
I'm sure I read somewhere in the e46 section ( where 10w60 is the standard grade ) that BMW say not to run above 135c oil temperature for extended periods.

110 shouldn't worry it at all, especially if you change it regularly as most trackdayers tend to.

Taking the thermostat out does seem the logical next step with your setup, I'm not entirely sure how it works and whether it can be removed without destroying it so you could put it back if you found it taking too long to get up to temperature.
its simple, much simple that deleting the coolant stat thats for sure!

remove the oil filter housing, locate the stat, ping (probably literally) the circlip out pull out the stat (undamaged) put the blank in and replace the circlip (once you have found it.

Thats it.

I have a few spare filter housings so if i get a moment i will put up some pictures, as to be fair there doesn't seem to be any on the net.
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Old 15th June 2018, 11:30 AM   #13
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Quote:
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Shell 10-60R in mine still produces good oil pressure at that temperature.

At 100 degrees the oil is still (about) 22cst when you compare that with say, millers nanodrive 10-40 which is about 14cst at 100 degrees you can see why.

I have never had any vanos operation issues or bearing issues at those temperatures and still see 6 bar of oil pressure at high rpm and 2 bar at idle, so its not all running out of the mains.

Ideally i would prefer it a bit lower 120ish would be ideal for me, which is why i am binning the oil stat as the cooler outlet is barely warm now its a 34 row
Quote:
Originally Posted by harrypevo View Post
I'm sure I read somewhere in the e46 section ( where 10w60 is the standard grade ) that BMW say not to run above 135c oil temperature for extended periods.

110 shouldn't worry it at all, especially if you change it regularly as most trackdayers tend to.

Taking the thermostat out does seem the logical next step with your setup, I'm not entirely sure how it works and whether it can be removed without destroying it so you could put it back if you found it taking too long to get up to temperature.
Thanks Both. To say I have Big End failure paranoia would be an understatement!
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Old 15th June 2018, 11:43 AM   #14
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mine has probably 10k miles of track use on it since i changed the bearings. Granted its a 3.0 so the crank is stronger but most of it has been at 130 degrees. Not driven over the crank yet
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Old 15th June 2018, 11:56 AM   #15
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My old cammed s50b32 used to run hot all of the time. I had a 32 row mocal oil cooler mounted right up front in full air flow and the thermostat delete. Eventually I just decided that I am just going to have to deal with it and carry on as no matter what I did I could not make it run cooler.

For reference I always ran fuchs pro race 5w40, temps were always 100-120, sometimes higher and the engine never skipped a beat after 7 years of track work.

Now I run a boosted s54 with a 325 tds oil cooler and the same thermostat delete. This engine runs nice and cool even after 20 minute sessions. the only difference being I run this one on 10w60. Go figure!!
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Old 15th June 2018, 12:00 PM   #16
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Does temp really matter? It's more how the oil itself is still doing its job at temp x.

Also thicker oil itself, will make it run hotter.

Of course there is more at play here, but try running a different grade oil and then see if anything changes.
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Old 15th June 2018, 12:29 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Does temp really matter? It's more how the oil itself is still doing its job at temp x.
Yes it does.

Oil will get thinner at elevated temps, once it thins sufficiently you will lose oil pressure and vanos function.

Usually vanos function first.

Once you loose oil pressure, you will lose the crank.
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Old 15th June 2018, 02:49 PM   #18
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Quote:
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Yes it does.

Oil will get thinner at elevated temps, once it thins sufficiently you will lose oil pressure and vanos function.

Usually vanos function first.

Once you loose oil pressure, you will lose the crank.
Yes, that I understand. Hence the "how the oil itself is still doing its job at temp x".

If it's still doing its proper jobat 500C, to give an extreme example, it should be no problem.
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Old 15th June 2018, 03:53 PM   #19
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Yes, that I understand. Hence the "how the oil itself is still doing its job at temp x".

If it's still doing its proper jobat 500C, to give an extreme example, it should be no problem.
but it wont be, its like saying what if water wasn't wet.

oil thins at elevated temperatures so temperature will govern the change in viscosity and to a point, the starting viscosity will govern how that oil behaves at elevated temperatures.

I know what your getting at but its a bit "magic beans"
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Old 18th June 2018, 01:23 AM   #20
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I just did the thermostat delete on my 3.0 track car and kept the standard cooler, running 10w-60.
Temps went from ~130c to 100-110c.

Not sure I would do it on a regularly driven road car as it does take longer to warm up.
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